Shotgun reloading issue.

[Ross1147]

Alright, I ventured into shotgun reloading last year when I wanted to go the TSS route. Try and decrease the price per shot…although it's still something like $3.50 a pop when shooting 1.5oz out of a 12ga. I am having an issue with squib loads with certain hulls and so I'm coming here to ask what I can do.

First load: 2 3/4 AA hulls, 32grn of AL steel, 1.5oz TSS, 3 filler wads, Mylar wrap around shot, Fed 209 primer. This round it tight in the hull when reloading. I can see the bulge of the wad in the hull etc. it first every time. Pretty decent groups at 40 yds (96 pellets in head/neck and 236 pellets in 10" diameter circle).

Second load exact same but in Fed hulls. These load up much easier. Not tight. Everything seems to fit together perfect. But, the powder never ignites? It's always the same thing. Pull the trigger, a slight poof sound, $3.50 comes rolling out if the barrel and wad gets stuck half way down.

I've scratched my head on this for a few days now. Only difference is the hull (obviously) but how tight the components fit together. I'm assuming the tightness in the AA hulls keep everything together long enough to allow the powder to ignite. In the Fed hulls I assume the shot starts moving down the barrel too fast, dropping pressure, causing the flame to go out?

What am I missing here and how do I fix it? Do I need to get some 209Ms and try them? Is there s way to keep everything together longer so the powder can ignite? Just scrap all the fed bills and try to find more AA (only have s handful)?

Thanks!

Ryan

 

[Rack]

I'm no expert. I reload target and small game loads. Shot gun and rifle reloading are a lot different. Meaning different rules to the game. You're using two different hulls. That would mean to different recipes. I'm sure someone with more experience will be along here shortly.

 

[wasskeet]

Never dealt with that type load or steel shot, but as stated above - different hulls quite often require different wads for creating a good seal. Winchester hulls have always had a tighter crimp at the end than a typical, ribbed Federal hull. Remington smooth, even more so IMHO.

Find a good manual and see what differences in wad/powder they recommend for each hull for that load.

 

[Old Rooster]

I reload shotgun shells but never mix make of shells.

 

[AGGRO]

I can't remember the make but one wad I tried had real issues with bypassing gas as a squib. I gave the rest of them away and no more problems.

 

[Prairie Sasquatch]

A couple things come to mind. The primer is obviously igniting and pushing out your components but no powder burn.

Are these Fed209 or Fed209A? 209A is a hotter primer and Steel is more difficult to get ignited than other primers. This is really important in cold weather. I use only Fed 209A or CCI magnums in my hunting loads that call for Steel, blue dot or Longshot.

Are those Fed hulls plastic base or paper base wad? If paper base they could be retaining moisture and getting your powder wet. You can also have a paper base wad cover the primer hole and not get good ignition. Look down into those hulls after you seat the primer.

What hull does the load call for? You really need to follow the load recipe as pressures can vary a lot between hulls. You might have a low pressure problem but it seems unlikely.

You could have a combo of too cool primer and cold weather and or a wet powder charge.

 

[243winxb]

Second load exact same but in Fed hulls

Different hulls needs different load. Follow published load data, exactly.

 

[Ross1147]

Problem is even new books have limited TSS data. I have a 5th edition Lyman handbook written in 20' and it includes lead, steel, bismuth, and hevi-shot. So no TSS. Finding data on it is hard. The wads I'm using actually came from a bunch of federal steel loads I cut apart (think COVID scarcity and I needed wads so I cut a bunch of Federal hulls). So the Fed hulls I'm using are fired hulls from the same batch of feds I got the wads from. Not 100% sure the powder they used was AL steel, but it looks exactly the same side by side. For 1 1/8oz of shot they used 34.6grns.
Now I assumed weight is weight when it comes to payload so I reduced it down to 32 grn (misspoke in my earlier post, checked my note book and edited first post) for 1.5oz of shot. Probably a dumb assumption but??
When looking at the Hevi-shot data (12g/cc vice 18g/cc) 32 grn is probably a little aggressive (1 1/8oz is the heaviest in a 2 3/4" case they list at 32grns with a 209A). So if anything I'd need to back off on charge, but that almost assuredly result in the same thing. The book does call for 209As for all loads though. Also 1.5oz is probably aggressive for a 2 3/4" hull. But 1 1/8oz is weak.lol
As for the primers they're just 209. But, they are 40 year old 209s. I do have a couple sleeves of Fiocchi 209s that I could try, those are probably only 35 years old.
I reload a lot of metallic wildcat cartridges so extrapolating load data isn't new. But if I'm barking up the wrong tree with shot shell reloading I'll back off. Did a lot of dumb things when I was younger when my dad gave us a 12 ga Reloader. We doubled charges, doubled shot, used wads we picked up from ranges, still didn't manage to blow any guns up(maybe 870s are bullet proof???) so I figured I'd be safe with an analytical approach?
Thanks.

 

[Old Rooster]

BPI sells Tungston shot and others as well as wads and supposed to have a manual with load data but as I get older my health problems prevent me from doing the things I wish I could do.
I watched a show where people were shooting geese at 50 to 60 yards with #7 shot and killing them very well so Tungston is the future.
Check out Ballistic Products Incorporated for supplies,thats who I have used for many years.

 

[3chester]

Problem is even new books have limited TSS data. I have a 5th edition Lyman handbook written in 20' and it includes lead, steel, bismuth, and hevi-shot. So no TSS. Finding data on it is hard. The wads I'm using actually came from a bunch of federal steel loads I cut apart (think COVID scarcity and I needed wads so I cut a bunch of Federal hulls). So the Fed hulls I'm using are fired hulls from the same batch of feds I got the wads from. Not 100% sure the powder they used was AL steel, but it looks exactly the same side by side. For 1 1/8oz of shot they used 34.6grns.
Now I assumed weight is weight when it comes to payload so I reduced it down to 32 grn (misspoke in my earlier post, checked my note book and edited first post) for 1.5oz of shot. Probably a dumb assumption but??
When looking at the Hevi-shot data (12g/cc vice 18g/cc) 32 grn is probably a little aggressive (1 1/8oz is the heaviest in a 2 3/4" case they list at 32grns with a 209A). So if anything I'd need to back off on charge, but that almost assuredly result in the same thing. The book does call for 209As for all loads though. Also 1.5oz is probably aggressive for a 2 3/4" hull. But 1 1/8oz is weak.lol
As for the primers they're just 209. But, they are 40 year old 209s. I do have a couple sleeves of Fiocchi 209s that I could try, those are probably only 35 years old.
I reload a lot of metallic wildcat cartridges so extrapolating load data isn't new. But if I'm barking up the wrong tree with shot shell reloading I'll back off. Did a lot of dumb things when I was younger when my dad gave us a 12 ga Reloader. We doubled charges, doubled shot, used wads we picked up from ranges, still didn't manage to blow any guns up(maybe 870s are bullet proof???) so I figured I'd be safe with an analytical approach?
Thanks.

Using forty year old primers from Florida, think Ya just answered Ur poor ignition problems.

 

[Rack]

PM sent

 

[Ross1147]

I know they're old.lol. That's why I was thinking that first, but they ignite in the AA hulls so I figured that wasn't it? And to be fair they've only spent one year in FL, the other 39+ was spent in CA…which probably made them even weaker. I think I'll pick up some 209A this week if the local store has any.

I have seen a couple spreadsheets from BPI. Used some of their TSS load data using unique and blue dot. Didn't have any issues with those, but was using AA hulls. From reading a few forums it sounded like AL Steel was the way to go so I switched to that. But some of their loads call for Fio616, which I have a couple hundred of, so I may try those before picking up 209As.
Thanks for the reply's.

Ryan

 

[Reemty J]

Get some Remington hulls, if you need some I have lots. It has to do with hulls and wad diameter.

 

[George Koch]

Alright, I ventured into shotgun reloading last year when I wanted to go the TSS route. Try and decrease the price per shot…although it's still something like $3.50 a pop when shooting 1.5oz out of a 12ga. I am having an issue with squib loads with certain hulls and so I'm coming here to ask what I can do.

First load: 2 3/4 AA hulls, 32grn of AL steel, 1.5oz TSS, 3 filler wads, Mylar wrap around shot, Fed 209 primer. This round it tight in the hull when reloading. I can see the bulge of the wad in the hull etc. it first every time. Pretty decent groups at 40 yds (96 pellets in head/neck and 236 pellets in 10" diameter circle).

Second load exact same but in Fed hulls. These load up much easier. Not tight. Everything seems to fit together perfect. But, the powder never ignites? It's always the same thing. Pull the trigger, a slight poof sound, $3.50 comes rolling out if the barrel and wad gets stuck half way down.

I've scratched my head on this for a few days now. Only difference is the hull (obviously) but how tight the components fit together. I'm assuming the tightness in the AA hulls keep everything together long enough to allow the powder to ignite. In the Fed hulls I assume the shot starts moving down the barrel too fast, dropping pressure, causing the flame to go out?

What am I missing here and how do I fix it? Do I need to get some 209Ms and try them? Is there s way to keep everything together longer so the powder can ignite? Just scrap all the fed bills and try to find more AA (only have s handful)?

Thanks!

Ryan

I know this is an old thread it popped up again, I've been reloading shotgun shells for Skeet competition for 10 years now , in excess of 100,000 there are only three things that I can think of that would cause this. Either wet or poor primers or powder or running them through the reloading system not paying attention and inadvertently not drop the powder. Out of 100,000 plus hulls I've reloaded I've had two that didn't fire. The powder didn't drop