dieselgeek
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2010
- Messages
- 53
Scope Tracking/Repeatability test proceedure
- Thread starter davewilson
- Start date
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Not common with any of my VX-3s or Mk 4s. None of them. This is the first place I have ever heard of that. Again, a credit to the forum.
I check mine with a yard stick, and a level on the mounted scope, not so unlike the way shown here. I haven't noticed anything but straight reticles. I haven't ever noticed any canting, except with the old fixed 4 power I had with them. It was off slightly, and it wasn't holding zero. They told me it was off by 2 degrees and they would replace the whole scope rather than repair it because it was so old, so that could be why it wasn't an issue with them. Interesting now that I look back how they made a point of telling me the exact degree of canting. At the time I didn't pay much attention, because, well, they were replacing the scope.
I haven't had any problem with them as far as customer service goes. In fact, I dropped one of my VX-IIs a couple years back and dented it. I sent it in and told them to let me know what it cost before they fix it. They sent it back to me repaired free of charge 3 weeks later.
But I agree, 3 degrees is not cool. Buddy hasn't got back to me. He is a process engineer for them, so not sure what insight he will have. Always good to give him a jab though. It seems very un-Leupold like to fix that.
I check mine with a yard stick, and a level on the mounted scope, not so unlike the way shown here. I haven't noticed anything but straight reticles. I haven't ever noticed any canting, except with the old fixed 4 power I had with them. It was off slightly, and it wasn't holding zero. They told me it was off by 2 degrees and they would replace the whole scope rather than repair it because it was so old, so that could be why it wasn't an issue with them. Interesting now that I look back how they made a point of telling me the exact degree of canting. At the time I didn't pay much attention, because, well, they were replacing the scope.
I haven't had any problem with them as far as customer service goes. In fact, I dropped one of my VX-IIs a couple years back and dented it. I sent it in and told them to let me know what it cost before they fix it. They sent it back to me repaired free of charge 3 weeks later.
But I agree, 3 degrees is not cool. Buddy hasn't got back to me. He is a process engineer for them, so not sure what insight he will have. Always good to give him a jab though. It seems very un-Leupold like to fix that.
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About 5 years ago , BenchResters were having discussions back & forth about Leupolds holding stable . Someone built and sold an Aluminum fixture which I think mounted on Davidson Bases which many Benchresters use . The fixture mounted 2 Scopes side by side so that you could compare an old known reliable Scope to one which you thought might be defective . Similar to your idea .
Jon A
Well-Known Member
That might show if something is way off, but you really need to check the tracking with respect to the reticle. With the reticle on a straight edge or line, crank in 30 or 40 MOA elevation and see if it stays on the line. That's the only way to know for sure. Enough cant to cause windage problems at long range isn't something you'll necessarily "notice." You need to really look for it to make sure you don't have it.
Please do harass your friend at Leupold. There are people who will no longer buy MK 4's due to this issue alone.
Jon A
Well-Known Member
The Leupold works well and is easy to use. It's not a precision lab-quality instrument, but if something on your scope is more than 1% off it's pretty easy to find it with that.
That is the model I have.
The other thing you can do with it is run your scope from min to max power and watch to see of POA changes. I have had scopes do this too which really screws up accuracy if you up the power from where you sighted in.
I use the yard stick as a straight edge and do exactly that. None of my scopes have any canting, even the VX-II. I always check that before I buy at the store (they have a setup to do so) and periodicaly on my own. Sorry, if I wasn't clear.
And I can definitely understand why one wouldn't buy one because of that.
My buddy hasn't responded to the email. I have another pressure point to hit too. I have family on a SERT team that utilizes 100% Leupold Mk4s for their snipers (kinda have too being a PD in OR). They often team with Leupold to fine tune and develop equipment based on their experiences in the field. I would wager he wouldn't be happy knowing that either.
Jon A
Well-Known Member
I hate to break it to you, but if none of the scopes you checked had any cant, you aren't checking accurately enough. Even very high quality scopes have a tolerance, and if you measure a bunch of them they will not all be 0.00 degrees on the nose.
Much the same with click value--with many manufacturers having a +/- 2% tolerance, if a guy says all of his many (especially lower end) scopes are exactly right on, it means he isn't measuring accurately.
In better news, don't worry about the guys on the SERT team. They should never be shooting at ranges where any of this matters. This stuff becomes meaningful at long range when large elevation inputs are required.
Much the same with click value--with many manufacturers having a +/- 2% tolerance, if a guy says all of his many (especially lower end) scopes are exactly right on, it means he isn't measuring accurately.
In better news, don't worry about the guys on the SERT team. They should never be shooting at ranges where any of this matters. This stuff becomes meaningful at long range when large elevation inputs are required.
I got it, and yeah, I know scopes have tolerances. Thanks Cpt Obvious. My scopes aren't low quality, and the show no significant canting. Not even the 1 VX-II I have which I have never shot over 500 yards. Its on a stock tikka I have that I rarely shoot anyway. I will recheck my Mk4s just for you though since you are so concerned with my scopes. Thanks for that.
And no, I still won't buy sightron.
Apparently you are the scope guy. I get that. But you have no clue about SERT capabilities and tactics. I actually do. I was never a shooter, I was a military officer, I don't get to do the shooting. I do have experience in urban and rural tactical situations and the training my men receive. I also know that SERT sharpshooters train in the same tactics, just with higher consequences than military. My cousin for example has been in drug interdictions requiring shots over 1000 meters. They use ERT Mk4s
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Lapua Guy,
This may be a good time to take a deep breath and reevaluate Jon A's intent in this thread. He is simply trying to help guys get a "real" understanding for what works and what kind of expectations should be had when dealing with optics.
If you doubt this I would encourage you to go back and read some of his posts on this site. He always gives a ton of free info and time and is more than helpful in answering questions and walking people through their issues. I don't think his attempt here is any different.
He IS very knowledgeable when it comes to optics and tries to enlighten others to make them the best shooters they can be. He does this here and on other forums as well. He may have strong opinions but they are based on solid information and experience that most should be glad to learn from as most gents simply don't have the luxury of gaining the kind of experience he was with optics.
And for what its worth I am not a friend of his, nor do I even know him personally or even talked to him offline. I just appreciate his expertise and willingness to share it with those who want to learn.
My 2 cents!
This may be a good time to take a deep breath and reevaluate Jon A's intent in this thread. He is simply trying to help guys get a "real" understanding for what works and what kind of expectations should be had when dealing with optics.
If you doubt this I would encourage you to go back and read some of his posts on this site. He always gives a ton of free info and time and is more than helpful in answering questions and walking people through their issues. I don't think his attempt here is any different.
He IS very knowledgeable when it comes to optics and tries to enlighten others to make them the best shooters they can be. He does this here and on other forums as well. He may have strong opinions but they are based on solid information and experience that most should be glad to learn from as most gents simply don't have the luxury of gaining the kind of experience he was with optics.
And for what its worth I am not a friend of his, nor do I even know him personally or even talked to him offline. I just appreciate his expertise and willingness to share it with those who want to learn.
My 2 cents!
timmyatnop
Well-Known Member
Staff Sargent Jon A , i read your test on the vortex viper ,over on snipers hide ,great article injoyed it a lot ,I think ive decided on vortex or sightron .Thank you for the great info.
