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Schmidt & Bender PMII or I.O.R Tactical Scope??
- Thread starter Dobermann
- Start date
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G
Guest
Guest
In my opinion you are comparing a Porsche to a Camaro....
the IOR doesn't compare to the S&B... if you have the $$$
the IOR doesn't compare to the S&B... if you have the $$$
sakofan
Well-Known Member
Not even close!!!..sakofan.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
S&B!!!!!
S&B!!!!!
sakofan
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
But I have heard the S&B scopes reticle is not good for targets as it gets bigger as the magnification goes up blocking out the target and the crosshairs are not that fine anyway??? (is this true) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
That's due to the front focal plane reticle in the S&B. IOR's used to have a FFP reticle, but now have mostly rear focal plane reticle scopes now.
It's all about what you like. I'll take a FFP scope for most all shooting scenarios...sakofan...
But I have heard the S&B scopes reticle is not good for targets as it gets bigger as the magnification goes up blocking out the target and the crosshairs are not that fine anyway??? (is this true) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
That's due to the front focal plane reticle in the S&B. IOR's used to have a FFP reticle, but now have mostly rear focal plane reticle scopes now.
It's all about what you like. I'll take a FFP scope for most all shooting scenarios...sakofan...
Pete Lincoln
Well-Known Member
Buy once buy right. we are all to poor to have to buy a second time. S&B's out class all others IMHO.
The misconception that the 1st focal plain scope reticles block out the target as you wind the x's up, and that the reticle gets bigger is just not true. The reticle stays exactly the same size in relation to the target, which is why you can range with a FFP scope on an x settting. Yes the S&B PMII reticles are slightly fatter than a target scope, but thats because they are a real world sniper scope, you need to be able to see the reticle in all weathers and light conditions.
Pete
The misconception that the 1st focal plain scope reticles block out the target as you wind the x's up, and that the reticle gets bigger is just not true. The reticle stays exactly the same size in relation to the target, which is why you can range with a FFP scope on an x settting. Yes the S&B PMII reticles are slightly fatter than a target scope, but thats because they are a real world sniper scope, you need to be able to see the reticle in all weathers and light conditions.
Pete
3sixbits
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Buy once buy right. we are all to poor to have to buy a second time. S&B's out class all others IMHO.
The misconception that the 1st focal plain scope reticles block out the target as you wind the x's up, and that the reticle gets bigger is just not true. The reticle stays exactly the same size in relation to the target, which is why you can range with a FFP scope on an x settting. Yes the S&B PMII reticles are slightly fatter than a target scope, but thats because they are a real world sniper scope, you need to be able to see the reticle in all weathers and light conditions.
Pete
[/ QUOTE ] With my right eye seeing the reticule is game, set, match for me!
Buy once buy right. we are all to poor to have to buy a second time. S&B's out class all others IMHO.
The misconception that the 1st focal plain scope reticles block out the target as you wind the x's up, and that the reticle gets bigger is just not true. The reticle stays exactly the same size in relation to the target, which is why you can range with a FFP scope on an x settting. Yes the S&B PMII reticles are slightly fatter than a target scope, but thats because they are a real world sniper scope, you need to be able to see the reticle in all weathers and light conditions.
Pete
[/ QUOTE ] With my right eye seeing the reticule is game, set, match for me!
G
Guest
Guest
see now...
German Engineering is really second to whom???
Really no one....
My ultimate scope delivery is not UPS it would be Pete driving up in a 911S Targa.. with a front trunk full of S&B's and a few new "ultimate scopes" he's working on.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif and leaving the goodies and the keys..!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
German Engineering is really second to whom???
Really no one....
My ultimate scope delivery is not UPS it would be Pete driving up in a 911S Targa.. with a front trunk full of S&B's and a few new "ultimate scopes" he's working on.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif and leaving the goodies and the keys..!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Dob,
Sounds like you are doing F class mainly. If so Nightforce would be the way to go. Of the two you mention S&B is very good. I would be tempted to wait a few months and have a look at the new 5-25x56 S&B though.
David.
Sounds like you are doing F class mainly. If so Nightforce would be the way to go. Of the two you mention S&B is very good. I would be tempted to wait a few months and have a look at the new 5-25x56 S&B though.
David.
Dob,
Nice explanation of the Front FP vs Rear FP issue on the USoptics website:
[ QUOTE ]
Why front or rear focal plane placement?
-
-
Question: What are focal planes and what is the difference between putting the reticle in the front or rear focal plane?
-
-
Answer: Only in a variable power scope is the reticle placement a major problem. In the rear focal plane, or behind the power changing lens system (erector tube), was the first solution that occurred to optical engineers, and most American scopes are still being built that way. Unfortunately, this apparently ideal solution has a very serious flaw.
-
-
Any tolerance change in the centration of the lens system and their spherical/longitudinal movement with the power change, will shift the point of impact. A variation of one thousandth of an inch will move the zero point approximately one inch at 100 yards.
-
-
Since the mechanical parts that hold the power changing lens system slide inside each other, (some allowances are made for temperature changes, manufacturing tolerances and wear), there must be some movement made to accommodate this. Consequently this lateral and vertical movement will often shift zero by as much as several inches as power is changed.
-
-
A better solution is to place the reticle in the front focal plane, or ahead of the power changing lens system. The movement of the erector system will, optically, have no effect on the point of aim here.
-
-
So why don't all scope manufacturers build them this way?
-
-
The downside of this method is that Americans typically do not like reticles that grow in size when the power is turned up.
-
-
There is no actual growth in the reticle size. As the magnification increases, so does the reticle along with the objects in the field of view.
-
-
A one inch dot reticle will still be one inch, at any power, be it low or high. It is only the appearance that is altered. If the power is turned from 2x to 4x, or doubled, the size of the objective image is doubled, and so is the reticle along with it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally, I can't understand why anyone interested in precision would even consider a Second FP.
Wandering zero as you change power /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Angular subtension of the reticle changing as you change power /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
It makes no sense! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Hope the quote helps.
Nice explanation of the Front FP vs Rear FP issue on the USoptics website:
[ QUOTE ]
Why front or rear focal plane placement?
-
-
Question: What are focal planes and what is the difference between putting the reticle in the front or rear focal plane?
-
-
Answer: Only in a variable power scope is the reticle placement a major problem. In the rear focal plane, or behind the power changing lens system (erector tube), was the first solution that occurred to optical engineers, and most American scopes are still being built that way. Unfortunately, this apparently ideal solution has a very serious flaw.
-
-
Any tolerance change in the centration of the lens system and their spherical/longitudinal movement with the power change, will shift the point of impact. A variation of one thousandth of an inch will move the zero point approximately one inch at 100 yards.
-
-
Since the mechanical parts that hold the power changing lens system slide inside each other, (some allowances are made for temperature changes, manufacturing tolerances and wear), there must be some movement made to accommodate this. Consequently this lateral and vertical movement will often shift zero by as much as several inches as power is changed.
-
-
A better solution is to place the reticle in the front focal plane, or ahead of the power changing lens system. The movement of the erector system will, optically, have no effect on the point of aim here.
-
-
So why don't all scope manufacturers build them this way?
-
-
The downside of this method is that Americans typically do not like reticles that grow in size when the power is turned up.
-
-
There is no actual growth in the reticle size. As the magnification increases, so does the reticle along with the objects in the field of view.
-
-
A one inch dot reticle will still be one inch, at any power, be it low or high. It is only the appearance that is altered. If the power is turned from 2x to 4x, or doubled, the size of the objective image is doubled, and so is the reticle along with it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally, I can't understand why anyone interested in precision would even consider a Second FP.
Wandering zero as you change power /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Angular subtension of the reticle changing as you change power /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
It makes no sense! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Hope the quote helps.
3sixbits
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I am going to go for the 5x25 Schmidt & Bender Thank you all for your advice it has been really helpful
Dob /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ] SMART!
I am going to go for the 5x25 Schmidt & Bender Thank you all for your advice it has been really helpful
Dob /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ] SMART!
