New and looking to learn

[MT-JONAS]

Howdy,
I've been hunting for 32 years but am looking to increase my knowledge and capacities in long range shooting to more effectively take game in my home state of Montana. My current self-imposed first shot limit is 500 yards. I have put together a 6.8 Western using a Savage Mod 10 action and a Carbon Six barrel.

I've been shooting the Winchester Copper Impact in 162 grain.

I've read quite a lot about the importance of bullet design for maintaining energy on longer shots. However, I'm am gearing up to reload (first time ever) and looking at different bullets so decided to pull a bullet on the Copper Impact. What I found was puzzling. Winchester's bullet has very little discernible boat-tail, in fact, it appears to be much more of a flat based bullet. See attached pictures.

Why would a rifle company introduce their own factory ammo for their own new "long range" cartridge with what is basically a flat based bullet?

Is this just ignorance on my part? If a long boat-tail is not important for maintaining long range energy, please help me understand.

In the pictures you'll see a Barnes LRX 155 grain (blue tip) and a Winchester Impact 162 grain (red tip)

Using my inexpensive scale, I weighed 10 LRX bullets and everyone weighed exactly 155 grains. I only weighed one Winchester, but it weighed 161.8 grains. The finished smoothness of the Barnes was noticeably better than the Winchester.

I'd value any input you might have…

 

[Rosebud]

There is a boat tail on the Winchester. If you have had good results with the Winchester there is no reason to switch. With cup and core bullets there will be minor weight variations. The smoothness of the Barnes is the difference in the copper being used. Run the win through a tumbler it will polish up nicely if that is what you want. But it will make no difference when being shot. The Barnes will be the harder of the two and will build pressure first. I'm sure someone else will add on to this. I don't like writing novels on the replies. Hope this helps.

 

[slv hunter]

With more surface area to push on the flat base bullet has more mv but the bc and bucking the wind suffer

 

[David_h]

It may be that Winchester is trying to keep the overall bullet length as short as possible to allow the factory ammo to work in some slower twist rates. My 6.8 Western rifle is 1:7.5" but some might be 1:8" or even slower? I've been running the 156gr Hammer Hunter but am now making switch to 160gr HHT.

 

[MT-JONAS]

With more surface area to push on the flat base bullet has more mv but the bc and bucking the wind suffer

Interesting, I would have thought once the bullet is in the rifling the tube would be sealed by the bullet and energy would get behind it either way.

It may be that Winchester is trying to keep the overall bullet length as short as possible to allow the factory ammo to work in some slower twist rates. My 6.8 Western rifle is 1:7.5" but some might be 1:8" or even slower? I've been running the 156gr Hammer Hunter but am now making switch to 160gr HHT.

My barrel is 1:8
Hammer's website shows that the 160gr HHT will work well in the 1:8", I'm just not quite settled in my mind with having nothing but a .277 sized projectile pushing through an elk (after pedals break off). I'm still thinking I prefer having a big, pedaled 155gr. bullet hanging together. Or mushroom.

Midsouth shipped my powder and 150gr Accubonds (not long range) yesterday.

I've already learned stuff!

 

[Lee7588]

Welcome from Central Florida

 

[Rosebud]

Hardness of the metal used in bullet construction and length of bearing surface is what causes pressure increases. Hammer Bullets as well as Barnes uses the bands to reduce bearing surface. Heavily constructed bullets like Accubonds and Swift have thicker jackets, taking more pressure to push them in the rifling, increased pressure. Hammers use their unique drive bands to reduce bearing surface, hence why you can push them faster.

 

[Mark37082]

Welcome from Tennessee. The science of bullets is an often discussed topic on LRH. Since you are getting into the reloading game, you will have a tremendous amount of options available to experiment with. All you have to do is open up your wallet and buy some that meet your intended purpose. Most of the time your rifle will tell you what it likes. You will find a significant disparity on the preferences among the members here. I have found most all will work if you put the bullet in the boiler room. Stretching out beyond 500 yards really puts bullet science and shooter skill to the test.

 

[Baker Alvin]

Welcome from SE PA!

 

[Bucklowery]

Interesting, I would have thought once the bullet is in the rifling the tube would be sealed by the bullet and energy would get behind it either way.

My barrel is 1:8
Hammer's website shows that the 160gr HHT will work well in the 1:8", I'm just not quite settled in my mind with having nothing but a .277 sized projectile pushing through an elk (after pedals break off). I'm still thinking I prefer having a big, pedaled 155gr. bullet hanging together. Or mushroom.

Midsouth shipped my powder and 150gr Accubonds (not long range) yesterday.

I've already learned stuff!

Those hammers will exit with a golf ball size hole each time

Thanks

Buck

 

[Rosebud]

I've never recovered a Hammer Bullet to examine it. And you are correct about the exit hole.

 

[memtb]

6.8w-user, Welcome from North Central Wyoming!

Can't offer any help with your bullet question, especially with your cartridge.

There are certainly "no flies" on the Hammer bullets, lots of n our forum…..I merely do not have any personal experience!
I will say though I'm unabashedly a big fan of Barnes Bullets, our (wife and I) only hunting bullet since the early '90's. I think that they are great, provided you keep your impact velocity a little bit above Barnes' indicated expansion minimum! Probably not necessary…..but, should assure good expansion! JMO.

For what it's worth…..I just this past August developed a load for my hunting rifle with the LRX bullet. I'm pretty darn happy with the velocities and the accuracy.
I just need to shoot something with it, to finialize the " Perfect Trifecta"! . And again……Welcome! memtb

 

[Roughrice]

Welcome from Louisiana!
You should get good information here!

 

[MT-JONAS]

Wow, guys, thanks for all the replies and the welcome. Sounds like a bunch of great people here!

Hammer bullet users:
Any idea what percentage of the Hammer bullet weight is left to the shank after the pedals have separated?