Is an ELD-M basically just a tipped berger?

[Simo2830]

I've killed and watched killed dozens of critters from blackbuck, coues deer, ky and tx whitetail, axis deer, hogs, and even a red stag with various Amax and ELDM bullets. Never, ever seen an Amax or ELDM pencil through an animal. I've read the stories on here from elk hunters running the 225ELDM and 285ELDM and having splashy, shallow expansion on elk but my two elk were archery and muzzy.

My experience has been with 75gr .224 ELDM, 140gr 6.5 Amax, 140gr 6.5 ELDM, 162gr 7mm ELDM, 168gr .308 Amax and 178gr .308ELDM--- all running 2700-3000fps MV and from 65-350 yards. I've seen very consistent results with great expansion, nothing explosive but they do seem to lose a good bit of weight during expansion especially if you run one through a shoulder blade or rib. However- they always do a great job wrecking vitals and putting animals down quickly.

I would be hesitant to run an ELDM or Amax on elk or other large game. The Red Stag was a target of opportunity and I only had a .308win/168amax with me-- one shot and he barely flinched, slowly turned around to run, stopped, wobbled and tipped over. Not an ideal combo, but it slipped through the ribs and took out the lungs completely.

My sample size for other bullets is smaller-- close to a dozen animals with Barnes LRX 145gr 7mm and 250gr .338, some deer with 6mm bergers, an aoudad and large hog with a 131 blackjack (worked great) and tried some 75gr BTHP that performed terribly IMO.

Based off my experiences I'll continue to use Hornady bullets and I've settled on a 270ELDX for my 338RUM for large, thick skinned game and a 7saum with 162ELDM for deer and below.

Interesting report. I recently picked up a box of 168 gr AMAX as hunting bullets in general are hard to find of late and target bullets are reportedly less than ideal, although after seeing this I may try them on Tx whitetail. I picked up some 212 .308 cal ELDMs for initial testing out of a Finn M28/76 in 7.62x53r. I'm looking fwd to trying the 180 AMAX out of the same rifle.

 

[Smurky]

I haven't used the 225 eldm for hunting but can attest they shoot VERY well in my 300NMI at 1K.

 

[born2hunt4ever]

That's a tough one for sure.

The 7mm STW to me is the best all around choice for a single gun hunter ballistically but it's an orphan and it can be difficult to even find brass, much less loaded ammo for it.

The 300wm is the most versatile of all common rounds shot in the country today. You can load it light and fast for varmints, with 220-240gr solids for dangerous game like big bears or with 180-200gr expanding bullets for medium and large game like deer, elk, and moose.

It however I think is going to continue fading into history with the advent of the 300PRC which gives superior performance.

That being the case I'd probably pick the 300PRC shooting 180-200gr Accubond or Accubond LR's.

The Accubond has a lower BC but is a much tougher bullet for punching through tough hides, snow, mud, big bones etc but the ABLR has considerably higher bc's even though it will not penetrate as well as it's predecessor at shorter ranges with higher velocity/higher energy impacts.

The Hornady Interbond is my preferred bonded bullet but it appears they are too busy with all their new whiz bang bullets and rounds to put any effort into even producing them on a regular basis if at all anymore and even after 20 years of people like myself asking them for heavier for caliber offerings in 6.5, 7mm, and .30 cal they just aren't budging.

Then we get into mono's. There are some very good mono's on the market and sooner rather than later all federal and probably state lands are going to be restricted "no lead" you need a reliable mono in the mix as well. For me, the choice in mono's hands down is the Peregrine VLR4 with the Barnes LRX and TTSX following closely behind. Hammer Mono's are building a good reputation as well but I personally have seen too much inconsistency in open Hollow Points to be willing to trust them for my own use. Lot's of people have had a whole lot of success with all three.

If I were forced by circumstances however I would not be afraid to shoot any of them if that were all that was available. There's some others on the market I've not had as much luck with such as the Hornady GMX which for me at least just hasn't shown to expand reliably so I quit shooting them.

There's one other that bears entry into the discussion and that's the Federal Trophy Bonded bullet. I've shot a few of them with great results but not enough to swear by them and I've never been able to buy them as a component to load and experiment with.

If you gave me two choices of bullet I'd stick with one of the above bonded bullets for the reasons stated for large and dangerous game and something like the Hornady SST for lighter, thin skinned game like deer and Pronghorn Antelope to shoot from my slower cartridges like the .260 Rem. Lower impact velocities require a different type of more frangible/rapidly expanding bullet to give the best performance. The SST has been the most reliable for me in that category of bullet. I shot a lot of Nosler ballistic tips many years ago and found it to be a little too frangible and explosive for my needs but a lot of folks find great success with that bullet especially on deer shooting those "double lung" type shots where there's little or no chance of hitting anything particularly hard but shooting a whole lot of hogs with them I wasn't nearly as happy with them as I was the Accubond or Interbond.

So to narrow it down finally.

If limited to one gun, one bullet, 300wm shooting Interbond, Accubond, or Accubond LR for practicality's sake, but my go to bullet for everything is the Peregrine VLR4 because it's the most predictably consistent bullet I've ever shot in anything from the .260 Rem to .300RUM to the .375 Ruger. The only problem with Peregrines is they aren't always readily available.

I've reached out to the owner of the company though to see if I can help him make them more readily available here in the US but we'll have to see.

Thank you for your response and your detailed answer! I live in Montana and swear by the 300 win mag for the exact reasons you just listed. I am getting 3000 fps out of a 210 grain bullet and have been using this combo for two years now and the 5 animals that have been hit by it have been very impressive. The other reason I like it is it bucks the wind and here in Montana you can have shots from 10-as far as you want to shoot and animals from a coyote all the way up to a moose. Again thank you for the detailed response and good luck on your future adventures.

 

[WildRose]

Thank you for your response and your detailed answer! I live in Montana and swear by the 300 win mag for the exact reasons you just listed. I am getting 3000 fps out of a 210 grain bullet and have been using this combo for two years now and the 5 animals that have been hit by it have been very impressive. The other reason I like it is it bucks the wind and here in Montana you can have shots from 10-as far as you want to shoot and animals from a coyote all the way up to a moose. Again thank you for the detailed response and good luck on your future adventures.

I've done a lot of shooting on the plains and agree completely. You will either learn to handle the wind or you'll never be successful.

I shoot the 300 Rum a lot more now because I can, but if I were just starting out today knowing what I know and seeing where the market is going, the 300PRC would be it if I could only have one rifle.

With the Winnie or PRC you can shoot anything on this continent or even on the African Continent with confidence with the exception of course of the "Big Five".

 

[Calvin45]

I haven't used the 225 eldm for hunting but can attest they shoot VERY well in my 300NMI at 1K.

It's the only projectile I've used so far to on more than on occasion print a one ragged hole group with my .300 win mag.

 

[Stonyman88]

It's a target bullet, I would not shoot it at game. The ELD-X however is a very good hunting bullet.

Check out the video on comparison of the X's vers the M's, very cool balistic gel results, the M's are thicker walled and at distance don't expand as well, but in the right place look out. Ulimate Reloader has a great video on them.

 

[WildRose]

Check out the video on comparison of the X's vers the M's, very cool balistic gel results, the M's are thicker walled and at distance don't expand as well, but in the right place look out. Ulimate Reloader has a great video on them.

I've seen the tests and no, I won't shoot them because expansion can be very unpredictable. That bug bit me long ago and I learned my lesson.

 

[VLD Pilot]

I've seen the tests and no, I won't shoot them because expansion can be very unpredictable. That bug bit me long ago and I learned my lesson.

It's been 22 years for me using match bullets to harvest deer. I'm still waiting on that lesson. Don't get me wrong, there is a time and place for a hunting bullet but not every shot scenario requires one.

 

[WildRose]

It's been 22 years for me using match bullets to harvest deer. I'm still waiting on that lesson. Don't get me wrong, there is a time and place for a hunting bullet but not every shot scenario requires one.

I agree not every shot requires them. I always like to tip the odds in my favor though particularly due to my preferred POI and my disdain for excess wasted meat and bloodshot.

 

[VLD Pilot]

I agree not every shot requires them. I always like to tip the odds in my favor though particularly due to my preferred POI and my disdain for excess wasted meat and bloodshot.

I agree whatever works for you. Most scenarios I won't go into the woods with a Nosler Partition.

 

[Calvin45]

I agree not every shot requires them. I always like to tip the odds in my favor though particularly due to my preferred POI and my disdain for excess wasted meat and bloodshot

The OPs question was answered in the first page of this thread so by now we all just talking and having some good natured conversation….IF you had to use one projectile for all big game hunting ever (excluding dangerous game/the big 5 maybe) what would you go with?…

 

[VLD Pilot]

The OPs question was answered in the first page of this thread so by now we all just talking and having some good natured conversation….IF you had to use one projectile for all big game hunting ever (excluding dangerous game/the big 5 maybe) what would you go with?…

Probably would be a very low drag hunting bullet (ELD-X,AB, etc)

 

[Raudy707]

Well since Colonel Rubin of the swiss army invented the copper jacketed lead bullet in 1882, we have been basically all hunting with the same bullets with massive success. One bullet, Nosler Accubond. It's fairly new coming out in 2003 but before that all I shot were Sierra Game Kings and Partition's. They still cover 98% of the shots I take today. In California I have to shoot lead free so its Hammers or LRX Barnes.

 

[WildRose]

The OPs question was answered in the first page of this thread so by now we all just talking and having some good natured conversation….IF you had to use one projectile for all big game hunting ever (excluding dangerous game/the big 5 maybe) what would you go with?…

In a Mono, Peregrine VLR4, Conventional, Hornady Interbond or Accubond. As unreliable as Hornady has become in producing the Interbond that leaves me with the Accubond.

I'm obsessive about controlled, predictable expansion and terminal performance.

I also realize that it's really rare for BC to make a whole lot of difference in the field when hunting because shots beyond 600yds are pretty rare. I can also compensate for lower BC's pretty easily with modern ballistic and atmospheric gadgets that are readily available.