High FOC

[Doghunter23]

I got my first animal with a compound bow today! I couldn't believe buck fever hit me . My question is do you guys buy into FOC being a big factor, or is it just modern bows being more powerful than the old.
He's a big bodied fork horn probably 3 year old. I can only pull 45 pounds so I build an arrow 585 grains with 25% FOC. I shot muzzy stingers and knock tuned each arrow before I fletched them.
He was 30 yards quartering towards and arrow hit right in front of the shoulder and completely passed through. Took out his heart. I don't recall that ever being normal penetration back in the day for such a low poundage set up.

 

[Carsyn.22]

I like your setup, I haven't been bow hunting in a while, just not enough time. If I get back to it I'll likely do similar, avoid high poundage but good FOC and a two blade fixed of moderate width, razor sharp is a must.

 

[biednick]

You probably slipped the arrow right between the ribs. When I first started bow hunting I'd get pass throughs with a much lighter, lower FOC arrow and a 50lb bow unless I clipped a bone. I had plenty that clipped the edge of a rib and didn't fully pass through too.

I don't buy into the super heavy, high FOC mindset. I think it can be detrimental in a lot of cases because the trajectory makes it harder to split pins accurately. Extremely high FOCs tend to result in more sensitivity to the release and can cause stability issues. I like something middle of the road, 450-500gr and usually land at 12-15% FOC. I don't worry about it when I'm building arrows, I just do a quick check of the first one to make sure it's in a reasonable range and send it. Most shooters would lose fewer deer if they spent their time practicing instead of chasing the perfect arrow.

585gr is heavy, especially for a 45lb bow. 25% FOC is very high. As a rule of thumb you don't want to be much over 10gr per pound of draw weight, and somewhere around 18% FOC is where you can start to see issues with arrow flight. It's probably fine for short shots, but you might see instability on longer shots. You'll definitely have a rainbow like trajectory.

 

[haftime]

I am in the opposite camp with high draw weight fast shooting compounds and have seen the difference FOC makes. People think I'm odd when I shoot 125 grain heads but the arrow flight, especially at distance is so much better. And I do love pass throughs.
Put some coins in the toe of a sock, grab the open end and whip it at a wall. weighted toe always hits first.

 

[FrogFire7]

I don't have a ton of archery kills but I use to use lighter arrows with 100 grain rage broad heads and never got pass throughs.

Used a fixed blade montec and shot through a buck, albeit a low heart shot so thin part of the body anyway.

Switched to a little heavier arrow with a 60 grain half-out and a 150 grain swhacker. Two deer in the last two years, both solid pass throughs, and that's with a 3" cut! I'm a believer in heavier frontal weight, and a better deploy system broadhead (or fixed blade).

All were with 70lh bows

 

[HSmithTX]

Anything over about 13% FOC is going to get you a really good flying arrow, even in the wind. I tried the super heavy arrow and high FOC and it just sucked after about 25 yards with the rainbow trajectory. Mine were 660-680 grains, 125 and 150 grain broadheads, 72# compound recent model bows. Slow slow slow. The arrows went through animals fine, just like before LOL, so I went back to what has worked exceptionally well for the last 30 years, moderate weight arrows and FOC in the 14-17% range. Bottom pin went from 30 and low in the scope to 40 and much higher in the scope. Still using 125 grain broadheads but total arrow weight is about 430 grains. Sight tape that maxed out at 80 yards is now 130 yards. Arrows still zip through deer and hogs like they are made out of paper using QAD Exodus that have been sharpened to scary to handle.

Quality of arrow flight is as important to penetration as arrow weight. If your bow tune isn't good and the arrow is any little bit off axis when it hits penetration will suffer dramatically. If you can't shoot a fletched field point, a fixed blade broadhead and a bare shaft field point repeatably to the same point of impact at 30+ yards one of two things is going on. First possibility is that you don't shoot well, not trying to be rude but I think it needs to be said. If you shoot well the only thing left that will keep a bare shaft and fixed broadhead out of the group is your bow isn't tuned well. A horribly tuned bow will still be quite accurate and repeatable with fletched arrows and mechanical broadheads, but it will penetrate like a fiberglass kids bow, so when someone says 'my bow is tuned, it groups great' you know that is not necessarily true. When tuned to perfection you get every grain of arrow weight pushing the broadhead through the animal and it will penetrate WAY better than if the tune isn't perfect. It will also be much more forgiving of form error and be far more predictable in the wind. Paper tune and get that looking good, then get out and shoot bareshafts and fixed broadheads regardless of what will be on the end of the arrow when the season starts. They can't lie.

 

[Laelkhunter]

Higher poundage bows and sharper, better designed broadheads might be the advantage you experienced. Congratulations on a successful hunt!

 

[southpa]

Im not sure if FOC is something that a guy needs to "buy into". Is it the end all? No but it's definitely not something to dismiss. People been shooting stuff for decades without paying attention to FOC. Sounds like your arrow build did perfect. 25% FOC is pretty good! Keep it up and congrats.

 

[Carsyn.22]

Can't deny that high poundage helps, but I have been busted by deer when struggling with a draw weight that was not particularly easy to draw from compromising positions. I personally would rather have an easier draw than the extra yards etc. just my personal compromise.

 

[Doghunter23]

Can't deny that high poundage helps, but I have been busted by deer when struggling with a draw weight that was not particularly easy to draw from compromising positions. I personally would rather have an easier draw than the extra yards etc. just my personal compromise.

I was definitely keeping that in mind! I might be able to pull 50 pounds but risk more shoulder injury- or stay at 45 that I can pull with a jacket on in the deer stand.

 

[Doghunter23]

Anything over about 13% FOC is going to get you a really good flying arrow, even in the wind. I tried the super heavy arrow and high FOC and it just sucked after about 25 yards with the rainbow trajectory. Mine were 660-680 grains, 125 and 150 grain broadheads, 72# compound recent model bows. Slow slow slow. The arrows went through animals fine, just like before LOL, so I went back to what has worked exceptionally well for the last 30 years, moderate weight arrows and FOC in the 14-17% range. Bottom pin went from 30 and low in the scope to 40 and much higher in the scope. Still using 125 grain broadheads but total arrow weight is about 430 grains. Sight tape that maxed out at 80 yards is now 130 yards. Arrows still zip through deer and hogs like they are made out of paper using QAD Exodus that have been sharpened to scary to handle.

Quality of arrow flight is as important to penetration as arrow weight. If your bow tune isn't good and the arrow is any little bit off axis when it hits penetration will suffer dramatically. If you can't shoot a fletched field point, a fixed blade broadhead and a bare shaft field point repeatably to the same point of impact at 30+ yards one of two things is going on. First possibility is that you don't shoot well, not trying to be rude but I think it needs to be said. If you shoot well the only thing left that will keep a bare shaft and fixed broadhead out of the group is your bow isn't tuned well. A horribly tuned bow will still be quite accurate and repeatable with fletched arrows and mechanical broadheads, but it will penetrate like a fiberglass kids bow, so when someone says 'my bow is tuned, it groups great' you know that is not necessarily true. When tuned to perfection you get every grain of arrow weight pushing the broadhead through the animal and it will penetrate WAY better than if the tune isn't perfect. It will also be much more forgiving of form error and be far more predictable in the wind. Paper tune and get that looking good, then get out and shoot bareshafts and fixed broadheads regardless of what will be on the end of the arrow when the season starts. They can't lie.

From the tuning aspect I was kinda forced into a high FOC situation. Both boys are obsessed with archery and shoot every day all summer. So I found a used bowtec for$225 just so I can shoot with them. My bow is adjustable from 15 to 70 pounds. Problem lies with the duel cam setup isn't adjustable, so at 45 pounds the arrows shot too stiff by far.
So my tuning method resorted to shooting 500 spine arrows and adding more and more tip weight till it showed slightly weak then cutting them down inch at a time till they flew bare shaft perfectly. Then I knock tuned each arrow through paper before I fletched them. Now broad-head bare shaft and target points all hit the same at 30.
I know it's probably not the right way, but it definitely worked.
As far as shooting distance I told myself all year I wouldn't take a shot past 25 yards with low poundage. But like I said I got rattled and I practiced at 30 so I just kinda instinctively took the shot.

 

[Doghunter23]

Higher poundage bows and sharper, better designed broadheads might be the advantage you experienced. Congratulations on a successful hunt!

Thank you! I ment to say Magnus stingers I wanted a cut on contact style. They seem to penetrate well

 

[dfanonymous]

My last archery deer was shot at 109 yards.

Western tags, spot and stalk, usually in open county, or sage'y like high country where you don't have a ton of trees to close the distance.

Yes. FOC matters. It's a matter of stability at distance and in wind for longer shots. 12% is a good balance. I need an enough speed to utilize the full range of my slider, but still get enough weight to still get good penetration. Then I fine tune the arrow, until I get as close to 12% as I can.

 

[Carsyn.22]

Whole different realm of bow hunting than I have ever done