Garmin xero

[Shootin4fun]

I'm loving my Garmin. Love how I can edit the info on my phone for later reference.

Loving the Xero too! To me, it's a gamechanger. So easy to set up and just run with for all the obvious reasons. Doesn't affect group size or POI, thereby saving ammo and time in a big way. You can just experiment away with loads, not having to shoot separate groups for accuracy/precision and velocity measurements. So 50% savings on ammo during load dev right there. When monitoring all your shots freely, you can see patterns emerge much more easily.

Edit? You mean delete shots? Add notes? Okay, that's nice...

BUT, they need to improve the software:

1) Assign a number to a series. Other chronos all do this and it helps tremendously in tracking series/strings. So currently you have a stack of series under a date, and they are just tagged with the time/date. Need to assign a simple number and increment for each series. I track everything on paper in parallel so I know what string (series) was shot at what target, etc.

2) Series Note is not carried to XLS upon exporting. Shot Note is! WTH? I want to name a Series with info: Case generation/powder charge/Ogive for example, and have that show up in the top field of the XLS spread sheet for that series. Right now my workaround is to put it in Series Note so it's easy to see on my phone, and again in shot #1 Shot Note. PITA

3) Add ability to Suspend a session and start a new session, then go back to the Suspended session and add shots. This would allow the user to shoot Round Robin, duh!!! (Magneto can't do this either but lil ol Shooting Chrony can! LOL) Round Robin shooting is a commonly discussed technique to average out environmental factors over some hours of shooting. Plus, I sometimes alternate guns at the range, letting one cool down while I shoot the other. This is really an important feature, probably the biggest hole in the software right now.

I can't understand how the Product Manager left these features out. Well, it's only 6 months old, so maybe it's on the product dev roadmap.

If we all send in an email suggesting these improvements, it should get them thinking about it. So feel free to copy and paste the above suggestions an send them to Garmin CS! Maybe call CS and talk to them about it if they're available to hear such things. I'll try tomorrow after shooting. Talk about it on YT vid! They are watching social media for sure, as all companies these days do. Let's get their attention!

Wrapping it up...If LR came out with a competitive unit that includes these features, Garmin will definitely implement them. As I said in my last post, I've been through a LOT of product shootouts over 45 years. They were on professional high tech products, and sometimes a customer's desisions came down to a few simple features. ("Does it take one button press or 2 button presses to do that?") If the one lacking didn't implement it in time, a sale would be lost to the competition who had it. That's one of the good things about competitive capitalism; it pushes innovation.

 

[Shootin4fun]

I will sell mine for$300 plus shipping

They've been going for $250 here and elsewhere.

 

[Shootin4fun]

the zero is worth every dollar. check the price of bullets and powder for a 338.

EXACTLY! Monos for a 6.5 are $.85 now as an example. You can shoot about 1/2 as many when doing load dev compared to Magnetospeed.

 

[Shootin4fun]

I did not know about this unit...and if I did, the MSRP would have prevented me from buying it. I'm sure Garmin has something to do with the huge discount:

SpeedTracker by Bulletseeker Mach 4 Doppler Radar Chronograph

The high frequency of the Bulletseeker Mach 4 Doppler Radar Chronograph allows for a more reliable and accurate projectile detection, and Bulletseekers...

ads.midwayusa.com

 

[coueskiller43]

But I bought mine at Scheels; they are running a special if you buy over $100, also $70 off if you sign up for a Scheels credit card.

What is the "special" if you buy over $100 at Scheels?
I added it to the cart and don't see anything.

 

[Shootin4fun]

This is no small comment. Can anyone actually verify this? If so - this needs some factoring for actual 'muzzle' velocity. (Or, maybe they factor this into the displayed speed?)

This has been discussed a lot in various forums on on YT vids and comments. I don't remember the distance, but it is close enough that they can calculate back to the muzzle. Primal on YT compares LR, MS, and Xero side by side using different calibers/velocities.

It is interesting to see the same and different readings on all 3. My takeaway is that it is consistently accurate enough to make any determinations that we need to. On many shots it matched the LR. On the rest there was a few fps diff. When we are up near 3K, these numbers are insignificant. but what is important is that it is consistent, so we know our ES and SDs are accurate. LR kinda dropped out of the race when the caliber decreased to sub 22 or velocity got up to around 4K.

 

[Shootin4fun]

What is the "special" if you buy over $100 at Scheels?
I added it to the cart and don't see anything.

Sorry, I just found an extra coupon they gave us...It was limited time 4/19 - 28. $50 off of a $500 purchase, and another another $50 off if you apply for a card, even if you get denied. I was lucky to succumb to my urge to go to Scheels and buy one the day I did. LoL, I spent the money saved on bullets. Maybe if you wait and just keep checking the usual suspects, something like that will pop up. But I would not count on an actual product discount, because they don't need to encourage people to buy these...the word is out.

 

[Eric H]

Loving the Xero too! To me, it's a gamechanger. So easy to set up and just run with for all the obvious reasons. Doesn't affect group size or POI, thereby saving ammo and time in a big way. You can just experiment away with loads, not having to shoot separate groups for accuracy/precision and velocity measurements. So 50% savings on ammo during load dev right there. When monitoring all your shots freely, you can see patterns emerge much more easily.

Edit? You mean delete shots? Add notes? Okay, that's nice...

BUT, they need to improve the software:

1) Assign a number to a series. Other chronos all do this and it helps tremendously in tracking series/strings. So currently you have a stack of series under a date, and they are just tagged with the time/date. Need to assign a simple number and increment for each series. I track everything on paper in parallel so I know what string (series) was shot at what target, etc.

2) Series Note is not carried to XLS upon exporting. Shot Note is! WTH? I want to name a Series with info: Case generation/powder charge/Ogive for example, and have that show up in the top field of the XLS spread sheet for that series. Right now my workaround is to put it in Series Note so it's easy to see on my phone, and again in shot #1 Shot Note. PITA

3) Add ability to Suspend a session and start a new session, then go back to the Suspended session and add shots. This would allow the user to shoot Round Robin, duh!!! (Magneto can't do this either but lil ol Shooting Chrony can! LOL) Round Robin shooting is a commonly discussed technique to average out environmental factors over some hours of shooting. Plus, I sometimes alternate guns at the range, letting one cool down while I shoot the other. This is really an important feature, probably the biggest hole in the software right now.

I can't understand how the Product Manager left these features out. Well, it's only 6 months old, so maybe it's on the product dev roadmap.

If we all send in an email suggesting these improvements, it should get them thinking about it. So feel free to copy and paste the above suggestions an send them to Garmin CS! Maybe call CS and talk to them about it if they're available to hear such things. I'll try tomorrow after shooting. Talk about it on YT vid! They are watching social media for sure, as all companies these days do. Let's get their attention!

Wrapping it up...If LR came out with a competitive unit that includes these features, Garmin will definitely implement them. As I said in my last post, I've been through a LOT of product shootouts over 45 years. They were on professional high tech products, and sometimes a customer's desisions came down to a few simple features. ("Does it take one button press or 2 button presses to do that?") If the one lacking didn't implement it in time, a sale would be lost to the competition who had it. That's one of the good things about competitive capitalism; it pushes innovation.

You can still edit Rifle Cartridge to include all the info for that particular group. I edit after each group as I was alternating rifles to let them cool for cold bore shots.

 

[Shootin4fun]

One last note- I don't remember seeing any other product with so many 5 star user and YT reviews. I didn't watch any of them before buying, just read a a print review and few postings here. Then after I bought, I started watching them and every one basically raves about it at the end. To maintain their credibility, usually YT reviewers try to throw in something critical even if it is insignificant or just a matter of personal preference.

 

[Shootin4fun]

You can still edit Rifle Cartridge to include all the info for that particular group. I edit after each group as I was alternating rifles to let them cool for cold bore shot

Ah, yes! I see if you hit Change, then Rifle Cartridge, you can add more text next to the bullet weight. If that shows up in the XLS sheet, it would suffice for what I want. I'm not where I can test this right now.

"I edit after each group as I was alternating rifles to let them cool for cold bore shot" - Are you suggesting that you can add shots to an existing "Ended" session?

Thank you Eric!

 

[Eric H]

Ah, yes! I see if you hit Change, then Rifle Cartridge, you can add more text next to the bullet weight. If that shows up in the XLS sheet, it would suffice for what I want. I'm not where I can test this right now.

"I edit after each group as I was alternating rifles to let them cool for cold bore shot" - Are you suggesting that you can add shots to an existing "Ended" session?

Thank you Eric!

Once you end session there's data moves to your phone, so no, you can't add more shots to that session.

 

[Old Rooster]

I assume it was working before the update.
Download was probably corrupted. I'm kind of surprised it even booted and displayed appropriate screens. But there are several moving parts to a firmware update, depending on how they implement it, so that part might not even have been touched. Did you try to run the update a 2nd time?
If you have time before they get back to you, I would try finding the previous version online and load that if possible. (not sure if it's posted) Then run the standard current update again. I don't know of any multi-button presses + holds to give it a "1st birthday" but even if you can that might not fix it.

They plugged in and did something but I have not been out to shoot since that happened.I have some powder coming tomorrow and have to be here for that so I can't go tomorrow morning.As soon as I can go I will report.
Edit to add it was working very well be fore the update.I went out 4 different times and got great data so it had to be that update.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Once you end session there's data moves to your phone, so no, you can't add more shots to that session.

This is something I told might come in a future update, where you can go back to a shot group and add to it. But no guarantee etc.

 

[liber]

I own both. I'm afraid the Garmin is not a panacea. If you are solo, no other shooters, it's great. If you are at an indoor range, the Labradar is better. Something to due with the fluorescent lighting as it picks up other shooters, typically to your left. Not sure why. Plus I found that under .30 caliber, the Labradar doesn't have as many dropped shots. No clue why.

I haven't posted much here, but I do have a LabRadar, and I would agree that it's kinda complicated. I was waiting and waiting for something smaller to come out, but broke down and bought one last year. I don't have plans to sell it and get the Garmin. I just upgraded the firmware to the latest, it was really easy for me, but I'm an Embedded Linux developer. All you have to do is unzip their package onto an SD card (fat32) and it will update and remove the files after it updates. I use an 8mb SD card to store the sequences on.

I would disagree about Labradar customer service. Everytime I have called , which is way too often because I seem to always run into problems with it, they help me sort it out every time. Its just with different muzzle devices, setting it up is very intolerant. I will be getting a garmin, but the Labradar was still a huge improvement over the Caldwell.

One thing is you really need to use a trigger with the LabRadar as it's not reliable enough without it, especially outside. I do shoot outside most of the time. The LR is clumsy to get setup, aimed at your target, but AFAIK I get no downrange velocities on the Garmin as I do on the LR. I have heard people say that it is just a guesstimate, but it does save me from having to do the math myself, which is fairly complicated.

The interesting thing I notice is that the bench rest crowd that hang out on Accurate Shooter and quick to dump their LRs and go out and buy the Xero with the belief it is just a better device. I agree that the Garmin is probably no panacea, but the dopler market is quite new. Pretty common to see LRs for $350 these days, often including the bag or bench tripod. I can currently only shoot to 200 yards, unless I were to shoot on BLM or seek out one of the few ranges with longer distance...my club range only provides 200 yards. For hunting, I normally would only consider 400 yards or less. Certainly depends on cartridge, but I know this is a long range hunting forum, so you guys may shoot out to 1000 yards on game. I don't trust myself. However, if you do, the LR could give you an idea of what velocity to expect at that range.

You can make a trigger for the LR pretty easily, I made this video about 9 months ago on how I made mine. I got the info from another guy on YT.



This is the motion detectors:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/394816746290

This is the video I got the info from.