Fliers

[nealm66]

Fliers are a pita. The 2 times I've fought them, one was stock, one was base. The stock would have a random flier but not 1 out of 3. More like 1 out of 5 or more and it was my brothers savage 6.5-284 that he wanted to use competition hunter class 600yards. Bedded Boyd's and no more fliers. Base was a fricking nightmare I don't like to talk about lol. I don't look for velocity nodes. I have one of those wiz bang super duper powder dispenser thingys that cost a lot and an amp annealer and mandrel size and seems to do the trick. If I want to shoot a certain velocity then I use a tuner. Otherwise, old school .2 ladder harmonics until inside an inch at 200 off a bench. Then I chrono for click data ( love that! ) and test . Hope that helps

 

[mcmdphd]

Second the remarks by QuietTexan. my 2 cents regarding "load development" = the
'best' powder, the 'best' charge weight, consistent brass press- shoulder bump, neck ID for bullet-neck tension, and finally the 'best' seating depth. This latter element may or may not alter velocity ES, but it can affect barrel harmonics; barrel harmonics affects point of impact on target. Thus, what some call 'fliers' is really a variation in POI due to barrel harmonics. I would consider your vertical POI spread when choosing your "best" load. And finally, best load for the < 300 yard hunting shot, does not have to be the same as the 1000 yard F-class load.

 

[RuninL8]

So, this is one of the most frustrating problems I see with rifle owners. Can be some what tricky to find, but you have a secondary recoil point 100%. If you choose to pursue reloading issues as your problem, understand you may find a load that shoots better but your problem will not be fixed and you'll be hundreds if not thousands down the road. Also, if this is a hunting rifle and you take it on a hunt and bump it into its secondary battery position, the "flier" as you call it, may be your first shot. I have seen, diagnosed, and fixed this problem many times. You really need to take your rifle out of the stock, check the inlet. If it is bedded and you cant find the problem, I hate to tell you but you'll most likely need to start over with the bedding. Please feel free to message me. I can walk you through a few things to check before you get drastic. I hate when this happens to people, like I said a very frustrating issue to deal with. Sorry

 

[Sako1756]

Let the barrel cool and then run a wet patch with alcohol followed by dry before each shot including first. I have seen my group sizes shrink on many rifles with factory and reloading rounds!

 

[Clem Bronkoski]

Could be a thousand things, including shooting form. This is why I like to load up 6-9 rounds of each load. Also when I am doing load testing I don't fire 3 consecutive shots at the same target. If I have 10 loads I put up 10 aiming points. I shoot 1 shot at each spot then let the barrel cool. (Maybe even after shooting 5 shots) Then I shoot the volley in reverse shooting the last first and first last. Then repeat first to last.

 

[L.Sherm]

I'm assuming your doing your load development at 100 yards. First of all rule out everything mechanical after that if it still does it and you've worked up to pressure and still does it try another powder. Group shape is what your after in the beginning i dont waste much time on the 2 in 1 thing before I switch powders or primers or both.
ES in the 20's is not also a concern in the beginning its a knats *** difference at 100 and .5 at 500

 

[WahooYahoo]

I've been there. This is my approach after I have isolated my powder charge by a consistently low es. Large group at this stage means nothing:

• Torque everything to spec. Action, base, and rings.
• Bore snake or similar a few times, dry patch to follow
• Be hyper critical of shooting position
• Dry fire 5x
• Fire 1st shot with chronograph
• Dry fire 5 x over 3-4 minutes to maintain position and allow consistent barrel temp
• Fire 2nd shot
• Dry fire 5x over 3-4 minutes
• Repeat this process x 5 shots minimum (more is better)
• On a separate aim point, after adjusting seating depth by 0.003-0.005" fire one, dry fire 5 then repeat x 5
• Rinse and repeat. Scrutinize your position between every trigger press, live or dry firing. Adjust the seating depth till you get "the group". Then fire to validate at range.
  I fire every shot next to my chronograph. I can see my real ES. ES of 20 over 40 shots is awesome; way more than an es of 2 over 3 shots. Good luck with it.

 

[Gcan]

Ok guys I know there's been discussions on fliers before. My question is developing a load an you get 2 basically touch an the third is 3/4 or so off on a 3 shot group. Sometimes maybe 1st 2nd or 3rd would be off. What's causing this. I've had this happen on multiple calibers. Can y'all tell me what's the deal

What Solobigdog said!

ive had this problem. The most common culprit is charge/node. Unless you are in a node with some breathing room (a few 10ths min) you can be right on the edge of out of control. There is no substitute for a good chronograph and patience. Find a good repeatable node and load to the middle. Best g

 

[rustyshackleford]

Are all of the rifles giving you the flier really light contours? I have a 30-06 EW I have shot a ton and I have finally concluded it's just a two shot gun with a hot charge. Every time I shoot 3 shots the shot is always out and the 4th and 5th do the same. If I shoot two shots, wait for the barrel to be ambient temp, and shoot two more they're all touching. And it's repeatable. Try slowing your cadence of fire. If they're truck axle contours it's far less likely. In the picture below the 1st and second shot are in the blob and the 3rd is the low flier. I took the gun off the bench ,shot another rifle and came back to the same POA with the EW and shot twice again. So we've got 3 in one hole and one just out by a hair. Second photo is different load combo but still a flier on the 3rd shot but it's a milder load. It's not ideal but for a hunting rifle I'll live with it for now.

 

[john k]

i have a CR in 300WM that will group everything well. I have the same gun in 280AI that won't. Drives me crazy.
good luck

I might have your CR .280 AI's twin.

 

[cabelasken]

It could be that your barrel is approaching the end of its life. I asked this very question to a well know gunmaker and that was his reply to me. This was after 6000 rounds thru the factory original barrel and now I have 5000 thru the shillen match thru the current barrel. The factory barrel started with the 1 flyer out of a 5 shot group at about 4500 rounds and the shillen match started doing this at 4000 rounds. 4 of the 5 bullet holes would be inside 1/2 MOA and the last hole would be 1/2" away. Pretty consistently.
.
+

 

[Bob Wright]

Some pictures of past shots. Don't have any of the current

Shot groups 1, 3 and 4 look like completely normal "cold and clean flyers" followed by fouled shots all grouping well.
Shot group 2 (from a "300" something) however, may have a secondary recoil lug as there is 2 distinct groups there. More testing maybe and a deep dive into attachment points in optics, stock and action; just about anywhere...
As far as handloading the problem out of flyers, it all starts with brass, prep, ignition, powder burn etc, etc. It's not an easy answer. It's a journey you'll have look at from what do I do to the brass as step one, if you're satisfied this rifle is solid, first.
Definitely need to bring data to this group!
Velocity at each shot and targets marked in shot number is a great start. Otherwise, we're all guessing.

 

[RD57]

Lots of guys with some great experience lessons and a great refresher. Was watching a friend shoot at the range with a known accurate rifle and he was having issues with a flier too which he and I haven't seen that rifle have before. He had me shoot 3 rounds and sure enough my group had a single flier out with two touching. So I checked his expensive front benchrest with multiple adjustments and sure enough it was loose and was moving during recoil. Tightened the rest up and the flier disappeared. Had similar thing happen to me with a 270 Win Featherweight rifle that used to shoot less than 0.5 inch groups at 100 yards with 130 Nosler Partitions. Couldn't get a descent group with my new shooting rest, went back to holding the stock like I was hunting with it off a sandbag and my good groups came back. Every rifle has its own personality and likes to be held differently, but if that isn't the problem then I go to scope mounting and rifle bedding next. Carlos88 explained a similar situation I had with a front action screw but mine was with a Mauser 98, took me 3 weeks to figure that one out with a little Dykem!

 

[bigpapa]

Hello good people, I can see everyone is looking at deepest problem but if I'm not to far out for saying or missed something 4 to 5 years ago if this was mentioned it come back as barrel heating up. I know one of my rifles with the smaller barrel throws the 3 rd shot almost every time..