Few seating depth questions

[Rhovee]

I have found the opposite to be true in my 28 Nosler. One day my groups opened up and my velocity was down. Checked and the throat had moved. Seated my bullets out to match 20 off, and everything was back up to normal. I have tested powder after seating and the groups did stay consistent. I watched velocity and found a good window and rolled with the middle weight. I have noticed that when i am close, i have a much smaller window of +/- where it likes to shoot. My 6.5WSM loves 143 ELDX anywhere from 60-75 off the lands. Up close i have to stay within 4 thou to keep things cool.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Every barrel is a little different but in just about every one they will want you to chase the rifling as it wears. Enough so that its common practice for successful competitors to measure the length to the lands every time they reload to maintain the relationship. I have had only one barrel in my life that wanted to be left at its original seating depth. The barrel will tell you what it likes. I dont have an issue putting bullets in the lands for hunting, but if you dont want to, start at the touch point and seat the bullet deeper in the case .003" at a time. Seating .010" increments will have you jumping right past seating depth nodes.

 

[Lonewolf74]

Alex I believe you probably have much more knowledge and experience than I do and appreciate your opinion. That said I have to say I disagree with you. To move.003 at a time would burn up way too much time, material and barrel life. A true sweet spot should be at least .010 wide giving you some forgiveness. If a +- of .004 within a batch of reloads makes a noticeable difference on paper your not in a sweet spot or using a bullet your rifle doesn't actually like.

Shooting one hole groups would be great but there should also be some forgiveness in the setup. If your window is only .003 wide it's not worth using, Berger bullets are not even made consistent enough to stay within that small of window, and there more consistent than others I have used.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I have never seen a .010" wide seating depth window in my life. I also have never had to go past .020" on the jump to find a node, usually its between touch and .010" off. If your not holding seating depths of loaded ammo to better than +/- .001" theres room to improve. A Wilson seater and good neck prep will do the trick, most seating irregularities come from variation in seating friction. Annealing can help as well as using a stiff nylon brush in the neck, like an iosso brush. The point of truly fine tuning a rifle to shoot its best IMO is to give you the most room for error. If we stop as soon as we hit 1/2 moa, what happens when temps change and the rifle goes out of tune? We may be back to 3/4 or 1 moa. If we are fine tuned we should be dead center of the node and have the most room for error. Part of the reason I dont like just bouncing around until we find a good load. If you make consistent changes while shooting groups you will see them shrink and open back up. You want to see that because it will help you pick the center of the node. Just my thinking on it.

 

[Lonewolf74]

Alex I agree with you there and I strive to find that point.
What I meant in my post is say for example your optimal seating depth is at 2.900 and that gives you .25" groups and if you happen to have a few rounds in a batch that are +- .002 so 2.898 and 2.902 and it still shoots around a .33 that's great and you have some forgiveness. Now on the other hand if the load goes a little hay wire at that +- .002 and groups open to 3/4 inch or so it's not forgiving and running to tight a line.

I know there's room for improvement in my reloading techniques but I feel I get pretty consistent results. I'll hit 2.900 right on the head 75% and be +-.001 another 20% but there's always a couple in every batch that are +-.002 even .003 off.

 

[Lonewolf74]

On a side note can you expand on the stiff nylon brush helping the necks?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The most consistent neck lube is the carbon fouling thats already in the neck. You dont want to remove it, but you do want to burnish it. A stiff nylon brush on a drill or my hand does a good job.

 

[Lonewolf74]

The most consistent neck lube is the carbon fouling thats already in the neck. You dont want to remove it, but you do want to burnish it. A stiff nylon brush on a drill or my hand does a good job.

So you don't use an ultrasonic or the wet stainless tumbler to clean your brass? Just wipe it off burnish the inside of the neck and clean the primer pocket?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

So you don't use an ultrasonic or the wet stainless tumbler to clean your brass? Just wipe it off burnish the inside of the neck and clean the primer pocket?

Correct.

 

[dsculley]

When using the Berger seating depth test I usually start at -0.010. Once I find a good node, I test around it for optimum seating depth. Using Berger VLD's and Nosler RDF's I have wound up at -0.060 to -0.080 on two different rifles. I plan a range trip Saturday. I think that I will load up some rounds and start at -0.002 and test in 0.003 increments. The extra room will help as this load is compressed.

On the issue of brass cleaning, pretty brass is way over rated in my opinion. I brush the necks as Alex stated. I also use the Lee Case Trimmer holder in a drill and polish the outside with a microfiber cloth. I clean the primer pockets by hand. I have never seen where "pretty" brass shoots any better than the way I do it. I do have a sonic cleaner, but that is primarily for range pickup brass, primarily .45 ACP.

 

[Lonewolf74]

I use an ultrasonic cleaner most of the time then the stainless tumbling when brass is real dirty or tarnished. I'm going to try just hand cleaning the next few batches.

 

[Lonewolf74]

Something else I've been wondering that's slightly off topic but related to seating and neck tension is neck turning.

Could it help much in samii chambered rifles that are not tight neck? How would you go about it? I would assume you would want to take just enough off to make wall thickness identical/even but not increase neck clearance more than necessary?

 

[brentc]

Something else I've been wondering that's slightly off topic but related to seating and neck tension is neck turning.

Could it help much in samii chambered rifles that are not tight neck? How would you go about it? I would assume you would want to take just enough off to make wall thickness identical/even but not increase neck clearance more than necessary?

Neck turning is an exercise in futility unless your chamber spec requires it. A well tuned load will overcome a lot of pointlessness. e.g. Neck turning in a SAAMI chamber

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The reason behind why we turn necks has nothing to do with the neck diameter in the rifle. You turn necks so they are uniform. The clearance around a neck in the chamber has no role in accuracy. Unless theres not enough. We tighten up the neck (tight neck) only to reduce the amount we work the brass, not for accuracy. If your necks have a lot of thickness variation you will benefit from turning, if your seeing less than .001 you wont shoot the difference in a hunting rifle.