Beating The Powder Companies....- Substitute Powders???

[Veteran]

Ok, from time to time, we have discussed substitutes for Retumbo, and substitutes for Varget, etc.

My thought is to focus on what powders are made in the United States, as substitutes if it gets really worse.....
That rules out all Hodgdon powders, all Alliant Powders, All Vihtavuori powders and most everything except Accurate, Ramshot, and Winchester Powders.

So here is a chart I made using Quick Load of all the Burn Rates of some popular powders mixed in with some lesser known Accurate, Ramshot, and Winchester Powders. It might be a nice project for someone in the LRH community to test some of these close burn rate possible or potential substitutes for velocity difference, and sensitivity to temperature. I'm just suggesting if you ever can't find a specific Hodgdon, Alliant, or Vihtavuori Powder, you might look over this ranking and try one of the Accurate, Ramshot, or Winchester powders made here in the USA. They will not be temperature protected but otherwise ought to perform well in moderate climates.

I put a T out beside the powders I know are temperature protected or advertised as so. I may have missed a few, so chime in if so.

I didn't list some of the Enduron powders as they are IMR and may be just as hard to find as Hodgdon since they are not made in the US either,
but in Canada as I understand it.

Some may claim that Hodgdon and IMR are US powders but as far as I know they are all made in Australia and Canada and imported in bulk to be
packaged and distributed here by Hodgdon. Hodgodon also distributes Winchester, but they are made in St. Marks, Florida.

The powders below are ranked by burn rate Ba value out of QL. Fastest to slowest. Who has tried Accurate 8700 in place of N570 for example?
Any results?

Varget		0.615​	T
N140		0.61​
IMR4320		0.592​
IMR 4166		0.589​	T
IMR4451		0.575​	T
Win 748		0.565​
H-4895		0.5571​	T
SW Precision	​	0.528
acc2230		0.523​
RS Big Game	​	0.522
H4350		0.513​	T
acc2700		0.506​
acc2460		0.488​
acc2520		0.485​
RS Hunter		0.458​
Win 760		0.4529​
H4831 SC		0.4301​	T
Win 780		0.421​
acc 4064		0.4025​
Win WXR		0.386​
RL25		0.384​
N560		0.371​
H1000		0.366​	T
acc3100		0.347​
Ramshot Mag	​	0.345
RL26		0.3397​
Retumbo		0.337​
Acc Magpro	​	0.3342
N565		0.3109​	T
IMR8133		0.3​
N568		0.3​	T
Ramshot LRT	​	0.285
N570		0.277​
acc8700		0.2713​
RL33		0.267​

 

[Veteran]

Win 748 might work well in lieu of H-4895?

Win 760 or Win 780 might be a good substitute for H-4831 SC, as may RS Hunter or Acc 4064?

RS Big Game or Acc 2700 as well as IMR 4350 might replace H-4350?

Win WXR might substitute for RL 25?

Acc 3100 might replace H1000

RS Magnum or ACC Magpro might replace RL 26 or Retumbo

RS LRT or ACC 8700 might replace N570

ETC.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Win 748 might work well in lieu of H-4895?

Win 760 or Win 780 might be a good substitute for H-4831 SC, as may RS Hunter or Acc 4064?

RS Big Game or Acc 2700 as well as IMR 4350 might replace H-4350?

Win WXR might substitute for RL 25?

Acc 3100 might replace H1000

RS Magnum or ACC Magpro might replace RL 26 or Retumbo

RS LRT or ACC 8700 might replace N570

ETC.

What did Quickload tell you for those examples. It usually tells me to go fish!

Ba is only part of the answer for will it work.

 

[Veteran]

What did Quickload tell you for those examples. It usually tells me to go fish!

Ba is only part of the answer for will it work.

I have not run any of these through quickload except for RS Magnum and ACC Magpro, which I use in both my .300 Win Mag and my .338 LM. But, I could. They will all work.

I have no real shortage of any powder I want either at this point. I'm just thinking ahead. I am of the opinion that ALLLL of these will work to some extent, though you may not get the same velocity or pressure profiles, but loads can be worked up that will WORK
if need be. And all of these substitute powders will not cost $50 or $55 a lb either.

 

[Veteran]

What did Quickload tell you for those examples. It usually tells me to go fish!

Ba is only part of the answer for will it work.

I guess I need to ask what is your definition of hunting vs. fishing?

 

[257Tony]

6.5 Staball is a Winchester powder, and can substitute for lots of powders in the 4350-4831 burn rate.

 

[cornshank]

Ok, from time to time, we have discussed substitutes for Retumbo, and substitutes for Varget, etc.

My thought is to focus on what powders are made in the United States, as substitutes if it gets really worse.....
That rules out all Hodgdon powders, all Alliant Powders, All Vihtavuori powders and most everything except Accurate, Ramshot, and Winchester Powders.

So here is a chart I made using Quick Load of all the Burn Rates of some popular powders mixed in with some lesser known Accurate, Ramshot, and Winchester Powders. It might be a nice project for someone in the LRH community to test some of these close burn rate possible or potential substitutes for velocity difference, and sensitivity to temperature. I'm just suggesting if you ever can't find a specific Hodgdon, Alliant, or Vihtavuori Powder, you might look over this ranking and try one of the Accurate, Ramshot, or Winchester powders made here in the USA. They will not be temperature protected but otherwise ought to perform well in moderate climates.

I put a T out beside the powders I know are temperature protected or advertised as so. I may have missed a few, so chime in if so.

I didn't list some of the Enduron powders as they are IMR and may be just as hard to find as Hodgdon since they are not made in the US either,
but in Canada as I understand it.

Some may claim that Hodgdon and IMR are US powders but as far as I know they are all made in Australia and Canada and imported in bulk to be
packaged and distributed here by Hodgdon. Hodgodon also distributes Winchester, but they are made in St. Marks, Florida.

The powders below are ranked by burn rate Ba value out of QL. Fastest to slowest. Who has tried Accurate 8700 in place of N570 for example?
Any results?

Varget		0.615​	T
N140		0.61​
IMR4320		0.592​
IMR 4166		0.589​	T
IMR4451		0.575​	T
Win 748		0.565​
H-4895		0.5571​	T
SW Precision	​	0.528
acc2230		0.523​
RS Big Game	​	0.522
H4350		0.513​	T
acc2700		0.506​
acc2460		0.488​
acc2520		0.485​
RS Hunter		0.458​
Win 760		0.4529​
H4831 SC		0.4301​	T
Win 780		0.421​
acc 4064		0.4025​
Win WXR		0.386​
RL25		0.384​
N560		0.371​
H1000		0.366​	T
acc3100		0.347​
Ramshot Mag	​	0.345
RL26		0.3397​
Retumbo		0.337​
Acc Magpro	​	0.3342
N565		0.3109​	T
IMR8133		0.3​
N568		0.3​	T
Ramshot LRT	​	0.285
N570		0.277​
acc8700		0.2713​
RL33		0.267​

Nice , thanks for the post.

 

[Veteran]

6.5 Staball is a Winchester powder, and can substitute for lots of powders in the 4350-4831 burn rate.

Yes, its at .54 and might be a good substitute for H4895 ----BUT

I did not list it because Butterbean said it was only good fer campfire starter, and otherwise a good substitute fer manure on the lawn......

But, results may vary!!

Let me know if you like it for H4895?

 

[257Tony]

Yes, its at .54 and might be a good substitute for H4895 ----BUT

I did not list it because Butterbean said it was only good fer campfire starter, and otherwise a good substitute fer manure on the lawn......

But, results may vary!!

Let me know if you like it for H4895?

I've never used it for that purpose, but it does awesome in 6.5 creed and 270 win. 140s in the Creed 2800 easy, and 140 in the 270 at 3050. SDs under 5

 

[Veteran]

Yeah, I hear Butterbean is not a big fan of 6.5 Creedmore either.....but that's just hearsay.... Glad it works well for you.

 

[johnnyk]

6.5 StaBall shoots great in my .270Win with 130gn BT's.

 

[spladi]

With only three lbs. of Varget left my search for a substitute powder showed almost as good results with IMR 4166 and SW Precision in the 6 BR with heavy bullets.

 

[bthemongrel]

Ok, from time to time, we have discussed substitutes for Retumbo, and substitutes for Varget, etc.

My thought is to focus on what powders are made in the United States, as substitutes if it gets really worse.....
That rules out all Hodgdon powders, all Alliant Powders, All Vihtavuori powders and most everything except Accurate, Ramshot, and Winchester Powders.

So here is a chart I made using Quick Load of all the Burn Rates of some popular powders mixed in with some lesser known Accurate, Ramshot, and Winchester Powders. It might be a nice project for someone in the LRH community to test some of these close burn rate possible or potential substitutes for velocity difference, and sensitivity to temperature. I'm just suggesting if you ever can't find a specific Hodgdon, Alliant, or Vihtavuori Powder, you might look over this ranking and try one of the Accurate, Ramshot, or Winchester powders made here in the USA. They will not be temperature protected but otherwise ought to perform well in moderate climates.

I put a T out beside the powders I know are temperature protected or advertised as so. I may have missed a few, so chime in if so.

I didn't list some of the Enduron powders as they are IMR and may be just as hard to find as Hodgdon since they are not made in the US either,
but in Canada as I understand it.

Some may claim that Hodgdon and IMR are US powders but as far as I know they are all made in Australia and Canada and imported in bulk to be
packaged and distributed here by Hodgdon. Hodgodon also distributes Winchester, but they are made in St. Marks, Florida.

The powders below are ranked by burn rate Ba value out of QL. Fastest to slowest. Who has tried Accurate 8700 in place of N570 for example?
Any results?

Varget		0.615​	T
N140		0.61​
IMR4320		0.592​
IMR 4166		0.589​	T
IMR4451		0.575​	T
Win 748		0.565​
H-4895		0.5571​	T
SW Precision	​	0.528
acc2230		0.523​
RS Big Game	​	0.522
H4350		0.513​	T
acc2700		0.506​
acc2460		0.488​
acc2520		0.485​
RS Hunter		0.458​
Win 760		0.4529​
H4831 SC		0.4301​	T
Win 780		0.421​
acc 4064		0.4025​
Win WXR		0.386​
RL25		0.384​
N560		0.371​
H1000		0.366​	T
acc3100		0.347​
Ramshot Mag	​	0.345
RL26		0.3397​
Retumbo		0.337​
Acc Magpro	​	0.3342
N565		0.3109​	T
IMR8133		0.3​
N568		0.3​	T
Ramshot LRT	​	0.285
N570		0.277​
acc8700		0.2713​
RL33		0.267​

Somebody's thinking, instead of wishing in one hand and ........ in the other. Thanks, Veteran

 

[Rosebud]

I've had mixed results with StABall. Couple of my gun hate it, but about half again more like it. It's of the 1st powders I try when loading CMs for others. Speed kills. And STaBall has that. Mostly because I can get STaBall in quantity, LGS has shelves full of it.