Advice on a new long range scope

[Capt RB]

This clarification is better than your original post. Your previous post, to me, appeared to read that POI changes...period...at different magnifications. I think everyone already understands that the hash marks, etc change in a 2nd FP scope will vary at different magnification settings. I just didn't want the OP, or anyone else, thinking that POI changes. Once your scope is zeroed, as long as it holds zero, POI does not change for your zero regardless of the magnification. Again, thank you for clarifying your prior statement.

Your point of impact definitely changes with change of magnification of a sfp scope. Shoot one with an accurate rifle and you will see. If you don't your not that good of a shot because a high quality scope will change over a minute. with just a 3x zoom ratio. The higher that zoom ratio is the more it will shift

 

[jpfrog]

Your point of impact definitely changes with change of magnification of a sfp scope. Shoot one with an accurate rifle and you will see. If you don't your not that good of a shot because a high quality scope will change over a minute. with just a 3x zoom ratio. The higher that zoom ratio is the more it will shift

So you're telling me that at 100 yards, with a duplex reticle placing the crosshairs in my target, if I fire one round on 3x and the crank up to 18x and aim for the same target again with my crosshairs on the target, I will see over 1MOA change in impact? I must be very fortunate with the scopes I have owned, because this has never been my experience.

 

[Capt RB]

You will see more than that with the higher zoom ratio. With the 8-80 March I saw well over a minute. 5.5-22NSX was 1moa up 3/4 left Your moving the magnifier in and out to change magnification.
Put the scope on a rifle capable of shooting .1 groups and you will see how much it will shift. It is physically impossible not to change point of impact with a sfp scope due to the mechanical movement. You move your turret .25moa or .001 to change point of impact. What is the amount of movement your lenses moves in front of the reticle to change your magnification? That will be the amount of shift your going to have

 

[Rich Coyle]

When Nightforce first came to the United States I called them about this very issue. They told me their scopes moved about a minute of angle. I called him 10 or 12 years later and they said they had rectified that and they did not change point of impact by changing magnification. One of the Leupold advertisements a few years back was they shot on 3 power then shot on 9 power and the groups were in the same hole.

 

[Capt RB]

Shoot them on a known accurate platform and get back to me

 

[Truk505]

I'll admit I'm no optics expert, but I do Gerard myself as a decent shot. I'm going to have to see scientific and practical proof of a poi shift with a magnification shift in a sfp scope because I've never heard of, or expirienced such a phenomenon.

Not saying it's not possible, just saying I'd like to see some proof.

Which direction does the poi shift?

Your point of impact definitely changes with change of magnification of a sfp scope. Shoot one with an accurate rifle and you will see. If you don't your not that good of a shot because a high quality scope will change over a minute. with just a 3x zoom ratio. The higher that zoom ratio is the more it will shift

 

[Rockin90]

Capt RB, stop wasting your time. There has been so much study on this it is ridiculous. Let them believe what they want. If they will not do a simple search and find the pages upon pages of data on this, let them be. I,for one, am done posting about it.

 

[Truk505]

Capt RB, stop wasting your time. There has been so much study on this it is ridiculous. Let them believe what they want. If they will not do a simple search and find the pages upon pages of data on this, let them be. I,for one, am done posting about it.

I went through this thread and the only thing you've posted about this is that you're not going to post anything about this. Others have posted that manufacturers have rectified such problems. Maybe it only happens with low end optics?

 

[jpfrog]

You will see more than that with the higher zoom ratio. With the 8-80 March I saw well over a minute. 5.5-22NSX was 1moa up 3/4 left Your moving the magnifier in and out to change magnification.
Put the scope on a rifle capable of shooting .1 groups and you will see how much it will shift. It is physically impossible not to change point of impact with a sfp scope due to the mechanical movement. You move your turret .25moa or .001 to change point of impact. What is the amount of movement your lenses moves in front of the reticle to change your magnification? That will be the amount of shift your going to have

Thank you, Capt- this seems to make some sense on paper. I'm not an engineer, but what you say does get my gears turning and help. Again, I've never seen it at the range myself, but my best rifle has only ever shot in the .2xx range. Sounds like I need to try this specific test for myself- I'm guessing for the most dramatic results, I'd want to zero the rifle on the lowest mag setting and then shoot back to back at the highest?

Capt RB, stop wasting your time. There has been so much study on this it is ridiculous. Let them believe what they want. If they will not do a simple search and find the pages upon pages of data on this, let them be. I,for one, am done posting about it.

That's the 3rd time you've made the statement that basically reads, "This is how it is- go do some research" but you have not been helpful in providing some examples of this research. People on this site come here for help, and challenge thoughts and opinions to further enhance their knowledge (and the knowledge of the community). I'm happy to learn new things- my own Google-foo has taken me to many many pages with many many differing opinions on the topic. Outside of waiting until I can go out and conducting a more focused experiment for myself (which I intend to do), I look forward to members of this forum providing helpful information or links to helpful information rather than making broad statements about how facts exist out on the interwebs.

 

[Rich Coyle]

40 years ago I had a Redfield 6 to 18 power. It would move 3 inches point of impact when switching from 6 to 18 power. I called Redfield. They said it was within their tolerance. Couple years ago I bought a Tasco 4-16 power. I took it over to Bob's accuracy shop. He has an optx comparator thing. He knew that Tasco was going to be terrible so I asked him to check it. It showed no deviation from four power to 16 power. It makes no difference what we find on the net. What makes a difference is what we find in our personal experiences.

 

[lancetkenyon]

OP, if you want to look through a 3-15×50 and a 5-25×56 with the same reticle in a FFP scope, let me know. The 3-15×50 & 3-20×50 do get somewhat small on 3x, but, who needs subtensions @ 3x? Plenty visible @ 6-7x, and nice that a 1.4 MIL wind hold is a 1.4 MIL wind hold across the entire magnification range.

3-15×50 Premier Heritage Light Tactical w. Gen 2XR
3-15×50 Tangent Theta TT315M w. Gen 2XR
5-25×56 Premier Heritage w. Gen 2XR

Or:
3-20×50 S&B PMII MTC LT w. H2CMR
5-25×56 S&B PMII DT w. H2CMR

2 weeks ago, we were shooting north of Wickenburg from 545, 750, 851, 921, 1181, 1251 & 1675. 15x is plenty for any reasonable hunting distance on deer-sized game, and at targets well past 1200 yards, even coyotes @ 1365 on 17x is very doable.

My suggestion, SWFA SS 3-15×42 would fit the bill quite well. I have two of them on 10/22s.

I am up in north central Phx area, and am at Ben Avery 75% of weekends.

 

[Good]

I'm liking the idea of the Athlon Ares BTR for the price, features, and relative low weight. I'd like to look through a Vortex Razor AMG as well, but it's twice the price.