Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
Please expand on that one Dalebow, as you lost me as far as boycotting and not hunting goes. What exactly is that going to do ?
Wolves gone wild.
- Thread starter kc
- Start date
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finally ,,someone nailed it...no revenue to the states... No revenue to the outfitters ..no revenue to all business and stores..that will wake them up...
No one will get to hunt for a year but after the outfitters tear there asses up ,,things will change
Boycotting wouldn't acomplish much in my opinion. Other than to make all the anti and eco-nuts rejoice that the are putting the nail in our coffin, and proclaim hunters are ineffective at managing game, thus we need the wolf.
Game dept. would be funded thru the general fund most likly, BUT with the feds into the whole wolf managment and having there thumbs on state game dept. by the whim of any judiciary rulling, even if the states did get very lose regs on wolf hunting some eco-nut would file suit, and we would be back to square one.
The best possible thing would be for every single elk hunter to;
#1. go elk hunting
#2. shoot a wolf before an elk.
#3. if you don't shoot a wolf, you do-not shoot an elk.
Do this for a few years and the western states would be back to a good start, guys would be hunting alot harder for a wolf.
Game dept. would be funded thru the general fund most likly, BUT with the feds into the whole wolf managment and having there thumbs on state game dept. by the whim of any judiciary rulling, even if the states did get very lose regs on wolf hunting some eco-nut would file suit, and we would be back to square one.
The best possible thing would be for every single elk hunter to;
#1. go elk hunting
#2. shoot a wolf before an elk.
#3. if you don't shoot a wolf, you do-not shoot an elk.
Do this for a few years and the western states would be back to a good start, guys would be hunting alot harder for a wolf.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
It's about dollars, USFWS changed their tune when their budget was threatened. Tag sales off 3 million dollars from 2008 has influenced IDF&G. This election cycle press your candidates to 1) Reduce USFWS budget to the point where raiding guitar makers is a big event for them. 2) Eliminate the endangered species act. 3) Modify the law providing compensation to the "winners" of these enviromental lawsuits. "Enviromental" groups have collected $4.6 billion from us to fund themselves. Lawsuits they win as they aren't seriously opposed by the government, and Judicial activism (read corruption). 4) Press organizations you may belong to, NRA, RMEF, SAFARI CLUB, FNAWS, etc. to make this wolf issue a priority. Instead of funding the state biologist, fund private biologist to counter the BS. One of these groups of stature should take an interest in where/how the Pittman- Robinson money went sue over that, the state employees who want to be federal employees when they grow up won't.
I won't say stop buying licenses, although I have said it. I also tend to buy them in states or provinces that I feel support hunting more than others. I will say demand more for your money, and stop your local groups from donating any money for wildlife projects that don't include predator control. An Oregon group funded coyote flights as part of the mule deer initiative. Here in Washington much is made about our elk hunting, but here in the eastern portion of the state, black bear in one study killed half the calves pre=wolf. A general spring season should have been a condition of any of the projects funded by sportsmens groups.
I won't say stop buying licenses, although I have said it. I also tend to buy them in states or provinces that I feel support hunting more than others. I will say demand more for your money, and stop your local groups from donating any money for wildlife projects that don't include predator control. An Oregon group funded coyote flights as part of the mule deer initiative. Here in Washington much is made about our elk hunting, but here in the eastern portion of the state, black bear in one study killed half the calves pre=wolf. A general spring season should have been a condition of any of the projects funded by sportsmens groups.
jmden
Well-Known Member
Good post.
The point about environmental groups--follow the money--there has not been an animal that has raised more money for these groups than the wolf. Ever.
And, as the post above alludes to, there is a federal fund I can't remember the name of at the moment, that when these environmental groups sue the feds and win, they are reimbursed their legal fees (from our tax dollars!!) and some of them have been charging way more for attorney fees than is considered normal. They are making money hand over fist on this!
First from an uncritical public that gives them money and then from the public again (tax dollars) when they win cases! Unbelievable. There's profit in that business somewhere for someone...
I could've killed two black bear this year, perhaps I should've done it. Now I've got wolves and grizzly where I hunt deer in eastern WA state and there have been several sightings of grizzly in western WA state where I hunt black bear. Sometimes I'm glad I'm packing that .338 Lap Imp. at least for the griz. Might have to start packing the .40 S&W for wolves--at close range, that is.
szeitner
Well-Known Member
A copy of a post Toby made on his facebook, Lobo Watch:
Following is an e-mail I received late last week from one Montana state senator. I thought you might find it interesting...
"Toby,
Either last fall or summer I e-mailed you that the Mt. Dept. FWP was in violation of several state laws and also in violation of their wildlife management plans. These wildlife plans, the Montana Elk Management Plan, and the Montana Gray Wolf Conservation And Manag...ement Plan, for instance, were designed by the agencies own biologists and went through the MEPA,( Montana Environmental Policy Act).
Today, Director Maurier, is stating that even though the wolf is now delisted in Montana, the agency cannot implement the Montana Gray Wolf Conservation & Management Plan that was demanded and signed by the USFWS in 2004--because of lack of funding.
I and other Legislators had the foresight to actually get certain portions of each of those Wildlife Management Plans codified into law. The agency must comply with state law--whether funded or not!
If there was a lawsuit regarding the agencies violation of the laws, it would expose this corrupt agency and its partners of collusion. And, in the stipulations of such a lawsuit, not only would the agency be forced to comply with the state laws, but many of their current practices and partnerships, outside the law, would also come to an abrupt end."
Watch for more on this in the very near future. Things are going to get very, very interesting. - Toby
Following is an e-mail I received late last week from one Montana state senator. I thought you might find it interesting...
"Toby,
Either last fall or summer I e-mailed you that the Mt. Dept. FWP was in violation of several state laws and also in violation of their wildlife management plans. These wildlife plans, the Montana Elk Management Plan, and the Montana Gray Wolf Conservation And Manag...ement Plan, for instance, were designed by the agencies own biologists and went through the MEPA,( Montana Environmental Policy Act).
Today, Director Maurier, is stating that even though the wolf is now delisted in Montana, the agency cannot implement the Montana Gray Wolf Conservation & Management Plan that was demanded and signed by the USFWS in 2004--because of lack of funding.
I and other Legislators had the foresight to actually get certain portions of each of those Wildlife Management Plans codified into law. The agency must comply with state law--whether funded or not!
If there was a lawsuit regarding the agencies violation of the laws, it would expose this corrupt agency and its partners of collusion. And, in the stipulations of such a lawsuit, not only would the agency be forced to comply with the state laws, but many of their current practices and partnerships, outside the law, would also come to an abrupt end."
Watch for more on this in the very near future. Things are going to get very, very interesting. - Toby
jmden
Well-Known Member
Here's a link to an article that talks about how the Equal Access to Justice Act (EAJA) (the name I couldn't remember in a post or two above) is being abused by these groups, sometimes specifically dealing with the wolf:
Legislation to stop huge legal fee payments to environmental litigation factories poised to be introduced - Views From Baja Arizona
Legislation to stop huge legal fee payments to environmental litigation factories poised to be introduced - Views From Baja Arizona
jmden
Well-Known Member
Environmental group fundraising:
Green machine: Mission adrift in a frenzy of fund raising
Article on wolf introduction to Virginia...new to me:
Wolves Coming to Virginia
Wolf fundraising in particular from: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...yLymCg&usg=AFQjCNFCyduhjCgc-pYDrYDfIo-e1LfGMQ This link will download a MS Word document.
An excerpt from the above document:
--------------------------------------------------------
"Fund raising: fact and fancy
More than 160 million environmental fund-raising pitches swirled through the U.S. mail last year. Some used the power of cute animals to attract donors. The problem is that in many cases those campaigns were less than honest.
Pitch: Gray wolf
In Salmon, Idaho, anti-wolf extremists committed a horrible crime. They killed two Yellowstone wolves with the lethal poison, "Compound 1080".... Please don't allow anti-wolf extremists to kill our wild wolves... These wolf families don't deserve to die. Please -- we need your help now.
-- Defenders of Wildlife, fundraising solicitation
Fact:
The two wolves were not Yellowstone wolves, but wolves re-introduced by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service into central Idaho. Some wolves are killed illegally but the population of wolves continues to increase -- at a pace faster than federal wolf recovery officials anticipated. The government expects to remove wolves from the federal endangered species list in 3-4 years.
Source: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Forgotten:
While wolves attract tens of millions of dollars in contributions, other creatures are virtually ignored, including the riparian brush rabbit in California, which is down to fewer than 100 animals -- and in imminent danger of extinction. Sixty-nine percent of freshwater mussel species are in biological danger or already extinct, compared with just 16 percent of mammals and 14 percent of birds.
Source: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service; Precious Heritage, The Status of Biodiversity in the United States, Copyright, 2000, a publication of The Nature Conservancy and the Association for Biodiversity Information.
Green machine: Mission adrift in a frenzy of fund raising
(Second of five parts)
By Tom Knudson
Bee Staff Writer
(Published April 23, 2001)
Dear Friend,
I need your help to stop an impending slaughter.
Otherwise, Yellowstone National Park -- an American wildlife treasure -- could soon become a bloody killing field. And the victims will be hundreds of wolves and defenseless wolf pups!
So begins a fund-raising letter from one of America's fastest-growing environmental groups -- Defenders of Wildlife.
Using the popular North American gray wolf as the hub of an ambitious campaign, Defenders has assembled a financial track record that would impress Wall Street."
Green machine: Mission adrift in a frenzy of fund raising
Article on wolf introduction to Virginia...new to me:
Wolves Coming to Virginia
Wolf fundraising in particular from: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...yLymCg&usg=AFQjCNFCyduhjCgc-pYDrYDfIo-e1LfGMQ This link will download a MS Word document.
An excerpt from the above document:
--------------------------------------------------------
"Fund raising: fact and fancy
More than 160 million environmental fund-raising pitches swirled through the U.S. mail last year. Some used the power of cute animals to attract donors. The problem is that in many cases those campaigns were less than honest.
Pitch: Gray wolf
In Salmon, Idaho, anti-wolf extremists committed a horrible crime. They killed two Yellowstone wolves with the lethal poison, "Compound 1080".... Please don't allow anti-wolf extremists to kill our wild wolves... These wolf families don't deserve to die. Please -- we need your help now.
-- Defenders of Wildlife, fundraising solicitation
Fact:
The two wolves were not Yellowstone wolves, but wolves re-introduced by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service into central Idaho. Some wolves are killed illegally but the population of wolves continues to increase -- at a pace faster than federal wolf recovery officials anticipated. The government expects to remove wolves from the federal endangered species list in 3-4 years.
Source: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Forgotten:
While wolves attract tens of millions of dollars in contributions, other creatures are virtually ignored, including the riparian brush rabbit in California, which is down to fewer than 100 animals -- and in imminent danger of extinction. Sixty-nine percent of freshwater mussel species are in biological danger or already extinct, compared with just 16 percent of mammals and 14 percent of birds.
Source: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service; Precious Heritage, The Status of Biodiversity in the United States, Copyright, 2000, a publication of The Nature Conservancy and the Association for Biodiversity Information.
Green machine: Mission adrift in a frenzy of fund raising
(Second of five parts)
By Tom Knudson
Bee Staff Writer
(Published April 23, 2001)
Dear Friend,
I need your help to stop an impending slaughter.
Otherwise, Yellowstone National Park -- an American wildlife treasure -- could soon become a bloody killing field. And the victims will be hundreds of wolves and defenseless wolf pups!
So begins a fund-raising letter from one of America's fastest-growing environmental groups -- Defenders of Wildlife.
Using the popular North American gray wolf as the hub of an ambitious campaign, Defenders has assembled a financial track record that would impress Wall Street."
How did we (the USA) get in such a mess?
When did government stop serving the people? and begin serving itself?
How is any of this ever really going to get fixed? the right way?
I never had a desire to climb Mount Everest, but it might be easier than reclaiming any scene of 1950s morals, work ethic, and attitude, in government and life.
I've written senators, congressmen, and their ilk for my whole adult life. I have gotten a collection of form letter replies that side step the issues with fancy verbage, I'm not wholly convinced they understand anything other than;
Money comes in from my "friends", I do what my "friends" ask.
I need votes, I will pander to the voters whims during this election.
How will my vote on this issue affect me personally.
Why would any of us expect this to get better? It won't that is the way it works, we are such a minority; hunters, ranchers, farmers, and the minority of us are effected by this, which leaves the rest in this demographic to say, " not my problem! no wolves, bears, sea monkeys, whatever, in Texas, Georgia, or Ohio, what do I care."
Dose my attitude suck, yep. But the reality is, reality sucks!
When did government stop serving the people? and begin serving itself?
How is any of this ever really going to get fixed? the right way?
I never had a desire to climb Mount Everest, but it might be easier than reclaiming any scene of 1950s morals, work ethic, and attitude, in government and life.
I've written senators, congressmen, and their ilk for my whole adult life. I have gotten a collection of form letter replies that side step the issues with fancy verbage, I'm not wholly convinced they understand anything other than;
Money comes in from my "friends", I do what my "friends" ask.
I need votes, I will pander to the voters whims during this election.
How will my vote on this issue affect me personally.
Why would any of us expect this to get better? It won't that is the way it works, we are such a minority; hunters, ranchers, farmers, and the minority of us are effected by this, which leaves the rest in this demographic to say, " not my problem! no wolves, bears, sea monkeys, whatever, in Texas, Georgia, or Ohio, what do I care."
Dose my attitude suck, yep. But the reality is, reality sucks!
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
"IF" big "IF" antelope benefit from the wolf as has been stated in some quarters. It is because of the wolves keeping coyotes in check. Fewer coyotes=more fawns=better herd. The Antelope is no doubt blessed with some marvelous traits. However, as bigger prey numbers fall, stockmen leave the range, eventually the wolf antelope matchup will get serious. If Kenyan marathoners can run an Antelope to a standstill I suspect wolves will as well. Short term I think Antelope benefit. Vegetation-They also told us fire was good for Yellowstone vegetation until it hit the *** level. In hindsight if it had been let go maybe this conversation could be academic
Gary Kaney
Well-Known Member
jmden
Didn't take it that way. In 1984 i promised my son an elk hunting trip when he graduated from high school. The hunt was above the Gibson Res. in MT. To make a long story short i have been going back every year since. Although i don't hunt elk anymore i still enjoy the friendship. It saddens to see what tree hungers are doing to that state. I'm leaving the 18th to see if i can get a woofie.
Didn't take it that way. In 1984 i promised my son an elk hunting trip when he graduated from high school. The hunt was above the Gibson Res. in MT. To make a long story short i have been going back every year since. Although i don't hunt elk anymore i still enjoy the friendship. It saddens to see what tree hungers are doing to that state. I'm leaving the 18th to see if i can get a woofie.
stevenautique
Well-Known Member
I had been communicating with my senators and congressman/women in MN regarding the grey wolf delisting and hopeful that we will be able to hunt/trap them in the near future. I just recieved an email from Michelle Bachman who stated that there is an amendment that would have cut the salaries of those state employees who help control the wolf population. That is crazy. The feds or state actually proposed that the employees that help control the wolf population get a pay cut.
here is the quote.
That is why I am a cosponsor of H.R. 838, the Western Great Lakes Wolf Management Act of 2011, legislation to delist the grey wolf. Further, I opposed a recent amendment to the FY11 Agriculture Appropriations bill that would have cut the salaries of the state employees who help control the population.
here is the quote.
That is why I am a cosponsor of H.R. 838, the Western Great Lakes Wolf Management Act of 2011, legislation to delist the grey wolf. Further, I opposed a recent amendment to the FY11 Agriculture Appropriations bill that would have cut the salaries of the state employees who help control the population.
CHARLIEDUECE65
Well-Known Member
As a fellow Minnesotan, who lives at least a 100 miles further south of swamphuner (Disclaimer: I don't know him
The local butcher shop had over 300 deer brought in during this years firearms season. I would have to agree if you had 30 deer on one piece of property here in MN, "farmers" would be very upset to say the least. We don't have land barons in MN who own thousands of acres or more. Most farms are probably under 200 acres or less for sure and not in one big chunk of land. I grew up in a farming area and still hunt with my best friend and his dad who farm. That kinda deer numbers probably would be great in a heavily forested area.
I have personally seen the wolves and actually have one on in squad video. I have worked in this area for over five years now and this was the first year I have seen them. This wolf was walking out in the open, across a golf course at about 7pm in July of this year . It sounds to me the argument is to get rid of a wolf that was never here in the lower 48, but whose to say they never would have migrated south eventually and populated? FYI, where I hunt, which is north east of Alexandria, MN the deer harvest numbers were way down this year, I've never heard of any wolves being seen, but I know the coyotes are plentiful.
As far as this argument goes, at present it doesn't pertain to me, I have nothing to lose like you guys, I don't hunt out west (Can't afford too), I do understand why you're all so upset, but again whose to say they wouldn't eventually be here. Unless they stop at the Canadian Border and turn around on their travels (highy unlikely). They obviously need to be regulated with a season and a significant quota allowed.gun)I signed the Big Game Forever petition to delist the wolf earlier last year too!
