Wolves gone wild.

Discussion in 'Wolf Hunting' started by kc, Dec 27, 2011.

  1. kc

    kc Well-Known Member

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    I know plenty of people in Michigans UP who are at the ends of there patences, the test of bringing wolves into Northern Michigan has turned into a mess.
    One of the guys told me he would set on his back porch and see 30 deer a day and now he is lucky to see one in a month.
    He would shoot a nice buck every year, he has not seen a deer during deer season in 5 years.if they set out apples the wolves would catch them on the way to his trees.
    he has Apple trees and the apples just rot on the ground.
    There are many people with the same opinion from Northern Michigan.
     
  2. szeitner

    szeitner Well-Known Member

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    Much of the same here in Montana. Elk and moose have dropped significantly in the west, and as the wolves move east, I fear our deer and antelope are going to face a sudden demise as well.
     

  3. Swamphunter

    Swamphunter Active Member

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    Thinkin if a guy is sittin on his back porch and seein 30 deer there are to many deer. They probably ate themselves out of house and home. I hunt in northeastern Minnesota and we are wolf central and yet we got 9 deer for 5 guys, and could have shot many more. Now don't go and call me a wolf lover I am neutral on the subject. I think we can't let them get out of control as they probably are in some areas. I also think we are not the ones to decide to wipe a species off the face of the earth as we have done to many times already. Try checking your deer habitat, elk habitat, etc and make a sound decision made on facts, not emotions. The animal rights activists do the emotional thing to well. They have blocked the wolf being delisted a couple times in Minnesota already. Now it looks like it will be delisted again and hopefully the fish and wildlife service have their ducks in a row this time and it will stay off the endangered list.
     
  4. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    That's twice!
     
  5. Swamphunter

    Swamphunter Active Member

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    Oh no,Roy has given me the.... "twice" this forum is to much, you all sound like a bunch of bloodthirsty barbarians. Get a grip dude
     
  6. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

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    are you kidding? first of all 30 deer from your back porch is not too many... he said his apples rot on the ground now... sounds to me like they arent going hungry. Your wolf loving liberal ideals are not going to be well recieved by most on here and by NONE of us in the states surrounding Yellowstone park where the wolves were re introduced a decade ago. I have personally seen our elk herd deminish significantly and they now reside in the bad lands because the wolves have pushed them down and out of the mountains. Maybe we are blood thirsty barbarrians... I dont really see that as a bad thing. I love to kill and eat, whats the problem?
     
  7. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    I meant what I implied!

    Consider your face glove slapped.

    Next time you head to Yellowstone, come across I-80 (vs I-90) there's a convenient spud cellar along I-15 we can go behind and settle this thing!

    Tools of your choice.

    Len, I apologize.

    I'll be quiet now.:rolleyes:
     
  8. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

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    I like Roy, hes a funny feller, this made me chuckle
     
  9. MT4XFore

    MT4XFore Well-Known Member

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    Roy's got back-up too. Plenty of it!!
     
  10. threejones

    threejones Well-Known Member

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    Yup, Roy's got a whole ton of support. A lot of the wolf issue in the Northwest is more to the point that they didn't bring "back" anything, they brought in a strain of wolf from Canada that's completely non-native, and they're taking over all the native species (Deer, elk, bear, even coyotes). The wolves we have now behave in a different manner than our native population did, not to mention that they are much bigger and run in larger packs. FWP didn't do their homework, or politics got involved, what ever you want to blame it on.

    Now, sportsmen all over the Northwest are getting screwed twice, because it was our money from licensing etc that paid for them to screw up our way of life... so ya... we are wolf haters (at least these ones). If the wolf had been re-introduced in a sustainable matter, and a new species not thrust on us just to make a few greenies with deep pockets happy, maybe we wouldn't be so upset. But... I just hope we can solve the problem before the whole state ends up like kc in the UP area. All of us blood thirsty barbarians in MT truly do feel for ya kc.

    Cody
     
  11. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    The head of the Wisconsin DNR who was at the helm when wolves were being introduced, has been pushing for years to get the wolf delisted and state managed in WI. Even though he has not worked for the DNR in years. He has seen the errors of his ways in buying into wolf reintroduction. He was personally asking for petition signatures last year at the National trappers convention.He is now president of the WI Wildlife Federation, our strongest pro gun/shooting/hunting/fishing/forestry, state lobbying group.

    I personally think your a troll whose working knowledge of the outdoors could fill a thimble.

    Go back to 24 hour campfire and spew your filth, you might find someone there who cares.
     
  12. Catahoula

    Catahoula Well-Known Member

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    Hey,Roy in Idaho,
    I agree with you 100% but some of these absurd posts do not even deserve a reply. Reminds me of the GO GO Varmit board. Let this guy love his wolves and the rest of us will do what we need to do to save our wild game.
    I sure would like to buy you a cup of coffee some day.
    Kirk
     
  13. szeitner

    szeitner Well-Known Member

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    From Guy Eastman: Scoping It Out - Guy Eastman's Blog

    We’re continuing to see an alarming trend in Western wildlife management. I am calling it the “Predator Death Spiral.” The underlying cause of this phenomina is when a wildlife agency attempts to hide or “pad” their big game population estimates when over predation begins to take hold. This in turn creates a downward spiral that cannot easily be avoided, and is often not even noticed until the state hits both a financial and PR rock bottom. Idaho was the first state to hit the wall with the “Spiral” followed by Montana and now Wyoming has begun to slip into the Spiral’s grip. The wolf situation has caused these three Western states to slide down the jagged slope of diminishing herds, shrinking revenues and bad PR among their customers and financial lifeline…out-of-state hunters.
    The details of the spiral start out very subtle. The wolves, cougars and grizzly bears start to take a few more elk and moose each year as their unchecked populations grow and expand. The state does not react at first with cuts in the tag quotas. This would mean a decrease in revenue that would have to be met with either more tags somewhere else or even worse, budget cuts. So they do what most Government agencies would do in this situation…nothing! After a few years of turning a blind eye to the situation a bad winter like the winter we had in 2006 and 2011 hit and further accelerated the problem. But, the bad winter was even worse than imagined from a wildlife management perspective. The increased snowpack and cold temps caused far more than the usual winter kill. The predators did extremely well because of the increased snowpack that gathered the herds even tighter than usual, on heavy snow accumulations that created a wolves dream come true scenario. A concentrated food source stuck in a snow bank that cannot escape…perfect. After the long cold winter is over the elk and deer that did survive go into the spring in tough shape. Many of the cows and does have aborted their young in order to survive.
    The post winter mortality counts come back into the department as an alarming number. But budgets have to be met. So being ever optimistic the state decides to give the remaining quotas just one more year to see if they might bounce back. After-all, the counts could have been flawed, there is no way we could have lost that many big game assets in one year, right?
    The next fall the hunters are complaining, the harvest stats are coming back very low and things are not looking good on the PR front. Many non-resident hunters are threatening not to apply the following year and the outfitters are starting to make their voices heard.
    The state reacts, and cuts the elk tags inside the wolf and winter zones. But the money has to be made up somewhere, after all a few hundred non-resident elk tags equate to big money. So the state moves to increase the quotas on elk outside the wolf zone and increase the deer and antelope tags substantially in an effort to compensate for the loss in revenue.
    A second harsh winter strikes and wipes out the antelope and deer herd excesses. Things are looking bad, but the state budgeteers don’t give up easily. Someone recommends the idea of raising license costs to all hunters, after all supply and demand economics formulas say a non-resident elk tag should go for over $2,500. But the resident tag increases get shot down by the commission but everyone likes the idea of sticking to the non-resident hunter a bit more. They can afford it, have you seen how much a house in California is worth? (pre-2008 of course). The following fall the hunters don’t see near the game they did even the previous year. Things are getting bad. Thanks to the internet the word gets out and many of the non-resident hunters move their camps and non-resident dollars to Colorado and New Mexico to hunt elk and deer.
    The next thing the state knows, they are sitting on millions of dollars worth of unclaimed and unwanted non-resident tags. Now with the wildlife resource in shambles and a multi-million dollar budget shortfall the state is finally forced to wake up and smell the coffee. This isn’t the 1970′s…it’s no surprise to us that a non-resident hunter who pays over $1,000 for an elk tag expects a good elk hunt, why should it come as a surprise to the state Game and Fish Commission? But it does. What the state fails to realize is, that once they began to charge that kind of money for tags and preference points they in affect gave up the option to simply brush it off as a “bad winter, try again next year” excuse that worked so well in the past. In the information age non-resident hunters no longer accept excuses easily.
    This is the bottom. A state is stuck to come clean and admit they are in a real hole. They don’t have the wildlife any longer to support their budgetary needs and their customers know it. This is the type of situation where a little fudge in numbers here and there has created a beast that cannot be controlled and is getting bigger, badder and uglier every year until the bottom is hit.
    Why? Because it would mean that the states would have to admit to contributing to their own financial demise. Some Western Fish and Game Departments have in fact become a wolf in sheep’s clothing to their constituants. Some inside the departments have, although reluctantly, in some cases went along with the Federal Government’s master plan to re-introduce super predators back into the ecosystem to eventually control big game herds without the use of hunters. It’s almost as if the state neglected to realize that this would, in fact, slit their own throats by gutting their departments of the necessary funding to run.
    And this is not just a Wyoming, Montana and Idaho problem. Wolves have already begun to take hold in Washington, Oregon and Utah. Nevada, and Colorado are certainly next. And for all of you midwest whitetail hunters out there, sorry, your not safe either. The government has devised a plan to expand the Mexican wolf North from Arizona and New Mexico into Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa, North and South Dakota and Nebraska to connect with the upper midwest wolf populations in Minnesota and Wisconsin. This would give super predators a way to control whitetail deer populations minus the use of hunting as a management tool.
    This is a critical situation but all is not lost yet. There have been huge strides made in the recent wolf debate and wolves are starting to be controlled now in Montana and Idaho. We all as hunters need to keep pressure on our politicians and state agencies to make sure they do the right thing for our wildlife. We pay them to manage our wildlife resource in a responsible manner, make them earn their money. Taking the easy way out is not good enough. They need to do better, our big game wildlife resource depends on it.
    Drop me a line and let me know what your thoughts are…maybe I’m just a conspiracy theorist…who knows. I know what I’ve heard and seen first hand so far, though, and it’s not looking good.
    Guy
     
  14. szeitner

    szeitner Well-Known Member

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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxaYMrwG3FI&feature=player_embedded]Big Game Forever Wolf Video - YouTube[/ame]