Why 1:11 twist for 30-06?

[Bullet bumper]

The Finss were making rifles before the Italians bought them.


Some people seem to think the Sakos are one of the more accurate rifles from the factory right now. Some people here don't seem to like them.


My guess was they were building it to stabilize a certain grain. Maybe marketing ploy. I have read 1:10 will work for 200 grain and maybe 220. But you would struggle to find any factory ammo in that weight. So maybe they figured why make a twist that will fire something no one is using.



One thing I like about them, is the quite safeties. I can't understand why more companies don't make a quite safety. 700s suck. Kimbers suck. Savages are little better. But Sakos are quite.

Their magazines lock tight.

Mixed feeling on being made in Finland, and not USA. I won't buy Brownings, made in Japan.

Sako are generally a good gun however the newer style actions with three locking lugs have had a few problems . Sako 75 is a better action than Sako 85 .
I have two Sako A2 action and love them. Actually the Japaneses made guns are very good overall . Howa , Weatherby Vanguard , and Browning are good value for the money .

 

[Zerk]

Sako are generally a good gun however the newer style actions with three locking lugs have had a few problems . Sako 75 is a better action than Sako 85 .
I have two Sako A2 action and love them. Actually the Japaneses made guns are very good overall . Howa , Weatherby Vanguard , and Browning are good value for the money .

I may buy Finn rifle, some Finn in me, but not an asain rifle. I have trouble in general buying non American guns, when we have so many to choose from. Though I am looking at Sako and Tikka.



Right now it seems they have the A7 cheaper, not cheap to me model, and 85.

 

[Zerk]

Humm... Where? This current list from their site only shows 11 twist for all 30 cal chamberings?
http://cdn1.tikka.fi/sites/default/files/technicalspecs_t3x_lite_stainless_0.pdf

I'll have to find it again. Tikka makes alot of models.

I may have seen it on dealer sites, I prefer my units in standard. Maybe they had it wrong.
https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/pro...442858777.do?sortby=ourPicks&refType=&from=fn

 

[Barrelnut]

I'll have to find it again. Tikka makes alot of models.

I may have seen it on dealer sites, I prefer my units in standard. Maybe they had it wrong.
https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/pro...442858777.do?sortby=ourPicks&refType=&from=fn

Yea, that's probably a misprint on Cheaper Than Dirt.

 

[FEENIX]

I'll have to find it again. Tikka makes alot of models.

I may have seen it on dealer sites, I prefer my units in standard. Maybe they had it wrong.
https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/pro...442858777.do?sortby=ourPicks&refType=&from=fn

Yea, that's probably a misprint on Cheaper Than Dirt.

Yep, here's a 1:11 version of the same product (MFR #:JRTE320) >>> https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/pro...ic-stock-blued-barrel-jrte320-082442811536.do

 

[desertbull]

It's not what I think, it's what THEY think. And yes. they do think that either A) their crap don't stink, and they know what's best, or B) it costs too much to update their tooling.

These big manufacturers don't give a F what you or I think. They just care about the green ($$$).

That is why you have a business....to make green ($$$).

If they thought they could make more profit and get a decent ROI, they would most likely do it.

1:11 twist will stabilze 90% of the bullets commonly shot out of an 06.

If it takes $500,000 to retool and they sell 1,000 additional rifles per year (they won't), do the math on how long it will take to recoup the investment.

 

[Bullet bumper]

I may buy Finn rifle, some Finn in me, but not an asain rifle. I have trouble in general buying non American guns, when we have so many to choose from. Though I am looking at Sako and Tikka.



Right now it seems they have the A7 cheaper, not cheap to me model, and 85.

The Japaneses guns are all made on German made machines so they are fairly good rifles and the basic Howa , Weatherby Vanguard design came from Australian designers originally .
America makes so much good stuff it is hard to look elsewhere but Sako and Tikka are good quality stuff in general . Tikka being a bit cheaper style production but still good shooters . You have to be happy with the gun you buy confidence is a big part of shooting well . My father fought the Japaneses on the Burma trail / railway in WW2 with the British Grenadier Guards and he hated them with a vengeance . Even as an old man If he saw Japs in the street he would want to attack them . Twice me and my brother had to hold him back from harassing some poor jap tourists . It was real crazy stuff . Once you explained to the Japs that he fought on the Burma trail in WW2 and he is not quite right anymore they would accept it and bow and that was it . They are a different people now and a friend so we have to cut them some slack . Funny thing is my father fought the Germans and the Japs but he never hated the Germans like that . I think he saw some awful stuff on the Burma railway .

 

[Bullet bumper]

That is why you have a business....to make green ($$$).

If they thought they could make more profit and get a decent ROI, they would most likely do it.

1:11 twist will stabilze 90% of the bullets commonly shot out of an 06.

If it takes $500,000 to retool and they sell 1,000 additional rifles per year (they won't), do the math on how long it will take to recoup the investment.

Hammer forge rifling machines would only need new 1 in 11 mandrels to be fitted and it would not cost anything like 500, 000 to have a few sets of mandrels made .

 

[Zerk]

The Japaneses guns are all made on German made machines so they are fairly good rifles and the basic Howa , Weatherby Vanguard design came from Australian designers originally .
America makes so much good stuff it is hard to look elsewhere but Sako and Tikka are good quality stuff in general . Tikka being a bit cheaper style production but still good shooters . You have to be happy with the gun you buy confidence is a big part of shooting well . My father fought the Japaneses on the Burma trail / railway in WW2 with the British Grenadier Guards and he hated them with a vengeance . Even as an old man If he saw Japs in the street he would want to attack them . Twice me and my brother had to hold him back from harassing some poor jap tourists . It was real crazy stuff . Once you explained to the Japs that he fought on the Burma trail in WW2 and he is not quite right anymore they would accept it and bow and that was it . They are a different people now and a friend so we have to cut them some slack . Funny thing is my father fought the Germans and the Japs but he never hated the Germans like that . I think he saw some awful stuff on the Burma railway .

I don't think they are different people. I think they lack our European values. I think that is true of most non European countries. Not the same value for life we have.

Mixed feelings about germans, yes they became blinded by hatred for certaingroups. Yes they caused death of millions in world wars. I think in general they hold our values, some what. But they were killing disabled people to save money. I don't have any major German investments either. Would be more inclined though.

Japanese think they are superior. China condemns there human rights records.

My personal choice. Not saying I don't buy any Asian products, but I weight purchases. I check labels for most things, and weigh which country is better to contribute to, lesser of 2 evils often.

I won't buy Chinese guns, though in that case I worry more about quality control in something that important

 

[Zerk]

Does anyone know what early sake twist were? I am not convinced they were always 1:11, and to cheap to change. I suspect 1:10 is outdated. We have been doing it for long tine. But no one shots 200 grain 30-06. Not factory loads at least.

 

[Barrelnut]

1) Sako/Tikka makes their barrels by hammer forging. Which is suspect as a way to make a premium barrel. What competitive shooter shoots a hammer forged barrel?
2) Hammer forging uses a mandrel that has a reverse image of the twist on it. They beat the living daylights out of it in a BIG hammering machine. It is mass production at the extreme.
3) Now they have thousands of 30 cal 11 twist barrels. They are NOT chambered. So, they take the barrels and cut some in 300 win mag, 308 win, 300 WSM, and some in 30-06, and Lordy who knows what else. This is why ALL of their 30 cal barrels are 11 twist. Not just 30-06!

I have family seriously impacted by war as well. My grandfather fought at Midway. I do not buy rifles with Japan imprinted on the barrel. I cannot. Not a gun, other things are different.

There are lots of gun makers in America who make superior rifles to anything made in Japan or Europe. I only purchase rifles made by Americans.

My choice, But remember Americans died for your privilege to purchase elsewhere. Your choice.

Lordy, Lordy, Lordy...

 

[Trnelson]

Does anyone know what early sake twist were? I am not convinced they were always 1:11, and to cheap to change. I suspect 1:10 is outdated. We have been doing it for long tine. But no one shots 200 grain 30-06. Not factory loads at least.

I mean no offense in this, I don't happen to know where you are looking, but even the local outdoor box here in Nebraska carries a good selection of different 200g and larger loads for .30/06.
If you are interested in long range hunting or long range shooting and you want to do it with a .30/06 you want to run at least a ten twist to be able to stabilize the ballistically slick, heavy for caliber bullets. I would not consider laying down my hard earned money for any .30/06 that did not have at least a ten twist. If I was having one built today it would get done with a nine twist, but that is a subject for another thread...
There are several threads here and other forums that outline the usefulness in hunting applications and target shooting of the 215 Berger hybrid, 230 Berger hybrid and OTM in all varieties of 308 Winchester and larger rifles. Check them out...

 

[Bullet bumper]

Zerk,

I think you have been given as good an explanation as possible from all the previous posts.

In my opinion there is no good reason for going with an 11" twist. Todays bullets are much better made than in previous times and do not have trouble with the mythic over stabilizing. Also there are very few bullets that can't hold up to the extra twist. There once were bullets that would separate in flight due to the extra twist, not really anymore.

There is no improvement by the manufacture changing from 10" to 11" twist. This was a poor decision. An 11" twist gives no perceivable performance increase over a 10" or a 9" for that matter. In fact from our terminal performance testing the faster twist barrels give better terminal performance on impact than the slower twist with the same bullet.

The Sako and Tikka are nice factory rifles. As long as you run bullets that are fully stable for the twist they will work well for you.

Steve

I agree there is no good reason to change .
Over stabilizing is a catch phase for spin drift . Faster rotation does cause more spin drift but the amount of difference between the two is minor .

 

[MudRunner2005]

I may buy Finn rifle, some Finn in me, but not an asain rifle. I have trouble in general buying non American guns, when we have so many to choose from. Though I am looking at Sako and Tikka.



Right now it seems they have the A7 cheaper, not cheap to me model, and 85.

I bleed red, white, and blue, and my family has many members who fought and died for this piece of dirt we live on. And with that being said, I still wouldn't overlook or underestimate the Browning A-Bolt II actions. Some of the smoothest and best custom actions to build on. Not much in the way of aftermarket accessories, but smooth and solid actions that make for a hell of an accurate rifle. The 60º bolt-throw is very nice, and the 3 large locking-lugs evenly distributes pressure on the case head.

As a staunch Remington 700 supporter, I must say that I have owned A-Bolt II rifles since I was 18, and they are without question my second favorite action.