What do ya'll think about a 6.5-375 Ruger?

[MontanaRifleman]

I've been a lurker of this board for years but never registered an account (thought I had but apparently not). A friend of mine mentioned this thread so I thought I'd finally sign up and weigh in.

I've been plotting a 6.5/375 Ruger for a couple of years now. I'm finally going to kick off the project in the next month. Fortunately for me I was able to connect with another fellow who had already built one and the gentlemen was so nice that he even loaned me the reamer. Aside from being throated a bit short, which my gunsmith can rectify the reamer is cut exactly to the dimensions I was looking for. The accuracy out of his rig has been very good, with velocities around 3300 fps. for 140's. That's exactly the kind of performance I'm looking for.

Now here's the downsides. The dies are going to be custom. Redding has a few of them in stock, but the full kit for everything you need is going to run you $200+ for the dies and that doesn't even include the case forming component. I'm going to use 338 RCM and 300 RCM dies to size the 375 case down progressively before the final pass through a 6.5/375 Redding die. The next problem with taking the case down this far is that the necks end up pretty darn thick. You're going to have to neck turn and/or neck ream. A lot of work. You could have the reamer cut to account for the thick necks, but IMHO you're going to end up with less than desirable results. I've sized 378 Wby cases down to 30/378 before, so I think if you were just going down to 300/375 Ruger you wouldn't have this problem, but if you're going on down to 264 you can probably bank on it. With the IRS savings account aka tax refund now in hand, I'll be ordering a Lilja barrel tomorrow. Next up is the Stiller action, and so on.

Anyway, I hope some of that is helpful. I think the performance will ultimately worth it, but it's going to be a PITA. I'm under no illusions about that part. For the OP, good luck with your project. I'll try to throw down some updates as my own project progresses.

Very cool, and great to hear from you! I just ordered the barrel for it from Broughton along with my 30 cal barrel I'll be using for the 300 version. Will odrer reamer and dies tomorrow for the 300 - getting custom Hornady New Dimesion bushing dies and seater for $190 + $27 for the micrometer insert. I might be able use the bushing die to step it down - not sure, will find out tomorrow. Since I'm using bushing dies I plan to turn the necks anyway. I'm told I shouldn't push the Hornady brass too hard or I'll be throwing it away pretty quick.

Let us know how yours goes. I'll be sure to post my progress.

-Mark

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Sounds like you need a new Smith---this ones a whack! Extending the tube life by 2 to 4 times-----he is smoking some good weed that is for sure.

Yeah Boss, it's a very special sage that grows just on the North slopes of the coulees found to the East of Great Falls

My smith isn't guaranteeing anything, just passing on what he heard from this guy while talkig to him at the shot show. He's been smithing for over 20 years and there's at least one other regular LRH member who is very pleased with his work.

YouTube - Salt-Bath Nitriding for Rifle Barrels -- Joel Kendrick Interview

Here's an Accurate Shooter artcle... it doesn't mention barrel life, bit it's a good read.

Salt-Bath Nitriding for Barrels — Whidden is Impressed « Daily Bulletin

 

[ken snyder]

I play around with my own wildcat designs. I have more dissapointment in over bore cartridges and don't do them anymore. Some yield less velocity than much smaller capacity cartridges. sizing down from .375 to 6.5 is a pain, particularly if the case is also shortened. It takes me up to 3 sets of reforming dies to get good brass, neck reaming and all sorts of difficulties. Then there is that wildcat uncertainty on radical departures. to put it simply I tie a very long string to the trigger and hide behind something until I feel confidant about my wag powder charges. I think you will be very rewarded and have a lot of pride in accomplishment -- go for it!!!

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I play around with my own wildcat designs. I have more dissapointment in over bore cartridges and don't do them anymore. Some yield less velocity than much smaller capacity cartridges. sizing down from .375 to 6.5 is a pain, particularly if the case is also shortened. It takes me up to 3 sets of reforming dies to get good brass, neck reaming and all sorts of difficulties. Then there is that wildcat uncertainty on radical departures. to put it simply I tie a very long string to the trigger and hide behind something until I feel confidant about my wag powder charges. I think you will be very rewarded and have a lot of pride in accomplishment -- go for it!!!

These will be my first wildcats and I'm quite excited about them. Would love to get some load info from your friend if he is willing.

 

[Boss Hoss]

Wildcats are pretty much all I build except on the high dollar wood rifles. Getting good advice on the sizing down operation this one will require 3 IMHO and then anneal. The process you speak of is gaining acceptance and in fact yesterday was discussing this with Ralf Martini who has this done currently as a possibility on a rifle he is building for me. Am leaning toward an external process for the action only that has a similar look to French Grey and is more durable than the one being discussed here. To my knowledge no one has used it yet but that it is being investigated for use by USG Primes on small arms. Currently it had replaced all known methods of plating if you will in the most demanding environments on the newest aircraft we building.

HVOF is just about indestructible but the bigger issue will be cost which is something that I have to find out about. Do not want to screw up a 3k Hagn action LOL.

Also, whenever possible use a parent case that is made by Lapua.

 

[Kingfisher]

Very cool, and great to hear from you! I just ordered the barrel for it from Broughton along with my 30 cal barrel I'll be using for the 300 version. Will odrer reamer and dies tomorrow for the 300 - getting custom Hornady New Dimesion bushing dies and seater for $190 + $27 for the micrometer insert. I might be able use the bushing die to step it down - not sure, will find out tomorrow. Since I'm using bushing dies I plan to turn the necks anyway. I'm told I shouldn't push the Hornady brass too hard or I'll be throwing it away pretty quick.

Let us know how yours goes. I'll be sure to post my progress.

-Mark

Mark, like I mentioned before the 338 and 300 RCM dies will do it perfectly and maintain the shoulder angle. Plus, they wont cost you much. Just a thought if your bushing die wont get it done.

 

[hammertyme]

I have been Nitriding and shooting both actions and now 9 barrels with the process for nearly a year. I can say WOW and let us do another one!!!!!

My 19" 6.5 WSM gained over 100fps velocity with the treatment. NOTE: I briefly went the Reloader 17 route and it smokes with 100gr bullets. Any larger bullets than 100grs and pressures max and above long before the case is full.

1st and foremost I must have my accuracy. If the barrel isn't bugholing then I am not interested. I have sent broke in barrels and unshot barrels in for Nitriding. I have sent many Savage Factory barrels in that were one holers and when I got all the barrels back they still shot the exact same way. 9 barrels means I would not waste my money if the process wasn't everything I thought it should be.

The 6.5WSM barrel is a skinny little 19" hunting barrel. 3 shots before Nitriding waas the max number before I let the barrel cool. After Nitriding 5 shots and the barrel is just warming up. 3500-3600fps velocity with the 100gr bullets. I am currently working with H1000 for both the 125 Partition,130 Accubond and 142 Sierra.

Benchmark barrels is now offering Nitriding for both barrels and actions. Nitriding is not a coating. It is a hardening process much like stress relieving except it is done in a salt bath once and oil bath twice. It penetrates 3-4 thou allowing the vast majority of the material to retain its strength and the bearing surface to be extremely slippery!!!

Some have brought up concern about the process on actions ruining the hardening of an action. To date we have punched 5 actions that have had the process done and have lost an average of 2 points of hardness. All Savage actions punched ran 42-44 before the treatment and ended up at 40-42 hardness on the front of the receiver and 38-40 on the back of the receiver. For those with the knowledge- it takes at least 1500 plus degrees for hours to soften steel. Nitriding is 1100-1200 degrees for and hour!

If you do not want to take mine or others information as the testers, feel free to call Chris a barrel maker at BENCHMARK and ask him how he like Nitriding. The first thing he will say is the .2 accuracy of his 280AI. The second thing he is excited about is 2800fps velocity with a 190gr MATRIX bullet.

I had this process done to a unfired 24" 300WSM barrel. It shoots incredible and it shoots a 180gr Sierra at 3160fps!!!!!! Check your reloading books guys. It is real and after nearly a year I have yet to find a down side. Unless one forgets to make a cut before Nitriding.

Neal

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Wildcats are pretty much all I build except on the high dollar wood rifles. Getting good advice on the sizing down operation this one will require 3 IMHO and then anneal. The process you speak of is gaining acceptance and in fact yesterday was discussing this with Ralf Martini who has this done currently as a possibility on a rifle he is building for me. Am leaning toward an external process for the action only that has a similar look to French Grey and is more durable than the one being discussed here. To my knowledge no one has used it yet but that it is being investigated for use by USG Primes on small arms. Currently it had replaced all known methods of plating if you will in the most demanding environments on the newest aircraft we building.

HVOF is just about indestructible but the bigger issue will be cost which is something that I have to find out about. Do not want to screw up a 3k Hagn action LOL.

Also, whenever possible use a parent case that is made by Lapua.

I agree on the Lapua parent case, however my reasoning in this selection is that I wanted to get the biggest case I could into the modest Howa action. And I like the design of the 375 Ruger a lot. My other consideration was the Dakota. I also think my favorite powder, RL17 likes these cases and will allow me back off a little and still maintain excellent velocities.

I hope to someday do a .338 LM, 300 LM and 7 LM and blow the shoulders out to about 30 degrees or so. Also considering a 6mm-284 Norma. Lapua brass is great stuff, so I've heard. Will just have to put up with the Hornady and not push it too hard for my 375 builds.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Mark, like I mentioned before the 338 and 300 RCM dies will do it perfectly and maintain the shoulder angle. Plus, they wont cost you much. Just a thought if your bushing die wont get it done.

Just spoke with Ben @ Hornady and they can make a forming die for $78 that will take it down as far as .050. I'm going to get one to take it down to .338 and see if I can use a bushing to take it the rest of the way. I'll try one step from .338 to .308 and if it doesn't work, I'll do anther bushing step in between. I'll turn the necks @ .338 and .308. That will be a bit of a pain.

Oh... and I meant form previous reply to Ken Snyder about being interested in your friends load.... got a little confused to who I was replying to

 

[Kingfisher]

I agree on the Lapua parent case, however my reasoning in this selection is that I wanted to get the biggest case I could into the modest Howa action. and I like the design of the 375 Ruger a lot. My other consideration was the Dakota. I also think my favorite powder, RL17 likes these cases and will allow me back off a little and still maintain excellent velocities.

I hope to someday do a .338 LM, 300 LM and 7 LM and blow the shoulders out to about 30 degrees or so. Also considering a 6mm-284 Norma. Lapua brass is great stuff, so I've heard. Will just have to put up with the Hornady and not push it too hard for my 375 builds.

I looked long and hard at the Dakota as a starting platform, but the cost of the brass is what put me off. I've been through enough 378 based Wby cases in my life to know that I want a project where brass is affordable and relatively easy to come by. The nice thing about having the Dakota already out there and established is that it should be relatively easy to extrapolate reloading data. Like if you decided to do a 300/375 Ruger, the 300 Dakota will be nearly identical. Within a few grains I would imagine. For the 6.5/375, you could do some simple extrapolation against the 7mm Dakota and come out close. I had to do the same with the 338/378 before there was published data. Never had any problems.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I have been Nitriding and shooting both actions and now 9 barrels with the process for nearly a year. I can say WOW and let us do another one!!!!!

My 19" 6.5 WSM gained over 100fps velocity with the treatment. NOTE: I briefly went the Reloader 17 route and it smokes with 100gr bullets. Any larger bullets than 100grs and pressures max and above long before the case is full.

1st and foremost I must have my accuracy. If the barrel isn't bugholing then I am not interested. I have sent broke in barrels and unshot barrels in for Nitriding. I have sent many Savage Factory barrels in that were one holers and when I got all the barrels back they still shot the exact same way. 9 barrels means I would not waste my money if the process wasn't everything I thought it should be.

The 6.5WSM barrel is a skinny little 19" hunting barrel. 3 shots before Nitriding waas the max number before I let the barrel cool. After Nitriding 5 shots and the barrel is just warming up. 3500-3600fps velocity with the 100gr bullets. I am currently working with H1000 for both the 125 Partition,130 Accubond and 142 Sierra.

Benchmark barrels is now offering Nitriding for both barrels and actions. Nitriding is not a coating. It is a hardening process much like stress relieving except it is done in a salt bath once and oil bath twice. It penetrates 3-4 thou allowing the vast majority of the material to retain its strength and the bearing surface to be extremely slippery!!!

Some have brought up concern about the process on actions ruining the hardening of an action. To date we have punched 5 actions that have had the process done and have lost an average of 2 points of hardness. All Savage actions punched ran 42-44 before the treatment and ended up at 40-42 hardness on the front of the receiver and 38-40 on the back of the receiver. For those with the knowledge- it takes at least 1500 plus degrees for hours to soften steel. Nitriding is 1100-1200 degrees for and hour!

If you do not want to take mine or others information as the testers, feel free to call Chris a barrel maker at BENCHMARK and ask him how he like Nitriding. The first thing he will say is the .2 accuracy of his 280AI. The second thing he is excited about is 2800fps velocity with a 190gr MATRIX bullet.

I had this process done to a unfired 24" 300WSM barrel. It shoots incredible and it shoots a 180gr Sierra at 3160fps!!!!!! Check your reloading books guys. It is real and after nearly a year I have yet to find a down side. Unless one forgets to make a cut before Nitriding.

Neal

This is what I like to hear

Did you experience velocity gains in all your your previously shot barrels?

How was the fowling in treated barrels that were not fired prior to treating and how many of those did you do?

 

[Kingfisher]

Just spoke with Ben @ Hornady and they can make a forming die for $78 that will take it down as far as .050. I'm going to get one to take it down to .338 and see if I can use a bushing to take it the rest of the way. I'll try one step from .338 to .308 and if it doesn't work, I'll do anther bushing step in between. I'll turn the necks @ .338 and .308. That will be a bit of a pain.

Oh... and I meant form previous reply to Ken Snyder about being interested in your friends load.... got a little confused to who I was replying to

338 to 308 wont be any problem at all. A simple pass through the resizer.

 

[ken snyder]

I have been wondering about nitrided barrel bores. The only experience I have is end mills. Nitrided ones don't last but about 150% (at most) longer than bright HSS. I know this is an apples and oranges comparison. I would like to see independent testing. Maybe I'll luck out and it wont turn into another moly debate. I am way ready for something that's as good as it sounds.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I have been wondering about nitrided barrel bores. The only experience I have is end mills. Nitrided ones don't last but about 150% (at most) longer than bright HSS. I know this is an apples and oranges comparison. I would like to see independent testing. Maybe I'll luck out and it wont turn into another moly debate. I am way ready for something that's as good as it sounds.

I hear ya... if it's not as good as it sounds, I'm guessing the 6.5 will be getting rebarreled pretty quick. My smith is pretty much old school and he seems to be convinced. Time will tell