What caliber 7mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag

[load]

i went with the 300 wm because it can handle HEAVY bullets. at long range one must also look at momentum not just kenetic energy. i'm shooting (for long range) hornady 225 (was using the 208) match and with 80.5 grains of retumbo i can get 2825 fps from a 24" barrel. a 26 outta get around 2900 fps. the 225 also has a bc of .67 gun)my gun likesem loaded long. shorter ranges i'm using hornady sst 180s with 78 grains imr 7828 @3030 fps loaded to max coal. for just fun i use 200 grain smk with 68 grains imr 4350 which gets 2825 (very accurate) again to max coal
anyway any of the choices you are listing are good choices and will work

 

[Stgraves260]

Sticking to my guns. I love the 7mm mag round over a 300 win mag any day of the week. The only way I would consider a 30 cal rifle is the 338 Lapua!!! There is nothing a 300 win mag can kill that a 7mm rem mag cant. It just has a lot more recoil. 7mm 168 grn Berger Bullet B.C. 617 = 3025fps. 300 win mag 168grn Berger B.C. 473 = 3100fps. The 7mm at 1000yrds has around 1100 Ft-Lbs. The 300 win mag has around 800 Ft-Lbs. The further you shoot the more the 7mm shines. With in reason. B.C. and speed is a key factor when "Hunting" long range. To get the B.C. up and the speed up on a 30 Cal you need the 338 Lapua. The 210 grn Berger B.C. is 631 in 30 cal. The 338 can push that bullet at 3100fps+. Now your around 1500 Ft-Lbs at 1000yrds. Now your talking killing " Moose" at 1000+ yrds. I hope this helps you. FYI I use my rem 260 130 grn Berger Bullets 2850fps B.C. .552 has around 650 Ft-Lbs at 1000yrds. Enough to drop a deer. The Berger Bullet still does its job!!!!gun)

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

If were talkign mainly a deer rifle, I'd go with the 7

If were talking a dual purpose deer/elk rifle, well I might think a lot more about the 300...

However, the 7 still wins out for me.

Whats the difference of a 208g amax or 162g amax going through an elks lungs at 1200 yards?? Not a whole lot. Elks dead either way. However, I can tell you the 208 from a 300 is going to rock you quite a bit more, for what? Nothing...

The 7mm is great because its ability to shoot somewhat heavy weight, high BC bullets at high velocity, but without all the kick involved.

 

[load]

however the difference in energy between the the 300 and the 7mm is huge. the 300 will get 2813 safely (by manufacturers specs in a 24 inch tube) with a 225 grain hornady match with a bc just higher than the berger 180. in a 24" tube the fastest you can get safely with the 7 is (by manufactuers specs in a 24 inch tube) 2775 but lets just say you hot load one to the same velocity as the 300 at 2825 the energy difference is 1685ft# for the 300 (within the 1500 recomended for elk) and 1230ft# (at my elevation)for the 7mm (below recomendation for elk and hot loaded to boot) i still think the 7mm will work (and well at that) but the edge does go to the 300 especially if you hit the shouldergun)

 

[Stgraves260]

Good evening. Hey Remingtonman I coulnt agree with you more. I was trying to get some info on the Hornady A Max bullets but couldnt find out the B.C. on the 225 grn A Max. I did find the B.C. on the 208 for the 300 mag. Its 648 B.C. Thats pretty good. But the hottest load I could find could only push that at 2850 fps from a 26" barrel. Im trying to find out how a 300 win mag can push a 225grn bullet at 2950fps from a 24" barrel. Im having trouble with that one. I did find that the 300 RUM can do that though. But back to the 300 win mag. I found out that the 208grn Hornady A Max at 2850 fps at 1000yrds has 1200 Ft-Lbs. And thats with a 26" barrel. The 7 Mag can push a 180 grn bullet at 2850fps and have the same 1200 Ft-Lbs. Also a 26" barrel. But will admit the section density on the 300 is bigger. Either way that deer, elk, moose wont know what hit them. Either rifle will do the trick just fine. Id just rather have half the recoil from the 7mag than the 300. I dont know how the A Max Bullets work at those ranges. But the Berger bullets are proven so im gona stick with what works. Im going to check on longer barrels for the 300 win mag and see if it can get the 225 grn bullet up to the 2950 fps mark. Im seeing a very heavy and long rifle though. But ill check. Happy Easter to everyone and there families!!!!gun)

 

[Firecat]

STgraves, I think that you will have a very hard time ever seeing a 300 wm hit 2950 with a 225 grain bullet. Hot loads out of my 24 inch barrel with 180's are only doing that. Granted a few extra inches will buy you some speed, but I think you would still have a futile fight on your hands. This has been a great thread. I have both the 7mm and a 300 win. All I can say is that when deer and elk season come I find myself reaching right past the 300 to grab old faithful. I am sure you all have rifles like this regardless of the caliber.

 

[load]

225s are g1 .67 and g7 .343.gun)

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

If you are considering elk size game the 300 winchester will beat the 7mm remington at any range and it gets way better as the range increases. Both will kill an elk but if I have to choose I am going with the largest caliber and best long range performance. The problem with the 7mm caliber there are just no premium quality high BC hunting bullets out there. I have numerous 7mm's and shoot them within their limitations. The 300 winchester can shoot quality big game bullets with BC's in the .6's at 3200 fps. The 7mm remington is not even in the same league as the 300 winchester at long range large big game. About the best you can do is a 168 berger at 3050 fps on average and that is a very questionable elk bullet unless you make a high shoulder shot or double lung him shooting dead broadside. No way you can drive that bullet at a poor angle through an elk to reach the vitals. With the 300 winchester you can outshoot the 7mm remington and do it with a premium long range bullet that will shoot through an elk at virtually any angle. No contest.

Those bullets will cost you but they are available in 30 caliber and not 7mm. The 7mm remington does not shoot the 180 and 200 grain bullets fast enough to make it a super long range rifle on elk size game. It can do it with a perfect shot but why not get a cartridge better suited for the purpose. That is why for long range hunting the 264, 30 and 338 calibers have an edge on the other calibers. Good quality premium hunting bullets with high BC's give these calibers an edge. Doesn't mean the others can't do it just these will do it better if you want to split hairs. Again these bullets are going to cost you but they are available in certain calibers and 7mm is not one of those calibers. If any do come available I want to know because I have numerous 7mm rifles.

Within the ranges where most elk are killed there are several premium hunting bullets for the 7mm that are excellent for elk but these lose out to the high BC hunting bullets available in 30 caliber when shooting long range. Cutting edge has a 170 grain monometal bullet with BC over .6 that would be about the best in 7mm. The 7mm remington will average around 3050 fps with this weight bullet.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Sticking to my guns. I love the 7mm mag round over a 300 win mag any day of the week. The only way I would consider a 30 cal rifle is the 338 Lapua!!! There is nothing a 300 win mag can kill that a 7mm rem mag cant. It just has a lot more recoil. 7mm 168 grn Berger Bullet B.C. 617 = 3025fps. 300 win mag 168grn Berger B.C. 473 = 3100fps. The 7mm at 1000yrds has around 1100 Ft-Lbs. The 300 win mag has around 800 Ft-Lbs. The further you shoot the more the 7mm shines. With in reason. B.C. and speed is a key factor when "Hunting" long range. To get the B.C. up and the speed up on a 30 Cal you need the 338 Lapua. The 210 grn Berger B.C. is 631 in 30 cal. The 338 can push that bullet at 3100fps+. Now your around 1500 Ft-Lbs at 1000yrds. Now your talking killing " Moose" at 1000+ yrds. I hope this helps you. FYI I use my rem 260 130 grn Berger Bullets 2850fps B.C. .552 has around 650 Ft-Lbs at 1000yrds. Enough to drop a deer. The Berger Bullet still does its job!!!!gun)

This is just silly talk, and the whole debate is silly. In most hunting situations, you probably aren't going to see much difference between the two, using similar bullets. But at some point, greater velocity, and bigger bullet will trump lower velocity and smaller bullet.... for the very reason you jump to the 338. That is the world we live in.

for some reason you say the smaller 7mm with less powder is equal to or better than the bigger 300 with more powder, but hey.... the 338 is best. Why is the 338 better?

I have both the 300 WSM and 7 RM and the 300 WSM will trump the 7 any day, and the farther the better. I am shooting 180 bullets @ 3200 fps out of it (24" barrel) so if you want to compare your ballistics to mine, please do. The 7 will shoot a 160 gr bullet 3100 tops out of a 24" barrel and that's 100 fps faster than I got out of my 7.

Don't be silly.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Its really a moot point as both are really so close IMO its just more personal preference.

I like 7s because I get dam near 30 cal performance with a lot less recoil.

7 mag with right bullet/load will still give 1000 ft lbs/1600+fps at 1K and thats plenty to kill any elk that ever walks this earth.

I witnessed a big bull taken last year with the 7 RM/162 amax at 1125 yards. After seeing that, kinda makes a guy wonder why hes using RUMS that burn 1/3 more powder and rock the **** out of ya...

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Attempting to shoot an elk at 1125 yards with a 162 amax out of a 7mm remington is fools gold. Can it be done, yes. Is it a good idea and be repeated with regularity, no. I appreciate everyones opinions on here as much as anyone and come here to learn like everyone else. But at the same time I try my best without being rude to use my experience to help guide people from doing something foolish.

Back in the mid-70's I jumped on the 7mm-300 wby bandwagon and ate up all the ballistics that went with it. I killed elk at your 1125 yards with it. I had a long discussion with Elmer Keith concerning long range shooting at elk. He was a smart man and tried his best to educate me but I was young and to full of ballistics. After seeing my friends lose several elk to the 7mm-300 wby which is well beyond a 7mm remington I built a 340 Wby and did what Elmer did. He did educate me but it took two more years for me to realize the 7mm is not a good choice for long range elk. By 1978 though I had the long range elk killing figured out with a 338 caliber cartridge. 30 cal is ok but don't go below that for best success on long range elk. Perfect shot and dead elk I don't care what you shoot them with as long as it is a good quality bullet. But at long range hunting shots are not perfect many times and the little calibers like 7mm and smaller do not take down elk very well with poor shot angles and marginal hits at low velocity. There are quality elk bullets for the 7mm remington but in my opinion it needs to stay in the 500 yard range for elk so a guy can put the bullet where it needs to go and the heavy premium elk bullets have the velocity to do the job.

 

[NZ Longranger]

I what been looking at buying another rifle for shooting LR 1200 yards for deer. Im looking at Tikka T3 and a Savage 116 FHSS. Or any other suggestions. I have it narrowed to 7MM mag or 300 Win Mag or even 300 WSM. What do you guys think.

Man, these caliber discussions crack me up!
But just to go back to the original question, it was for a deer rifle, not Elk. In my opinion you do not need premium quality controlled expansion bullets for 1200 yard deer. In fact quite the reverse, you want the bullet that has the best combination of BC verses velocity to give you the best chance of hitting where you want to, and you need a bullet that will still expand well at the very reduced impact velocity at this range. Again, in my humble opinion, backed up by shooting a lot of deer at extreme ranges, the A-Max's, Bergers and other similar thin jacketed bullets are exactly what you want at this range. Sirocco's, AB's etc are far too hard to give you quick kills at 1200 yards on deer.
As for what's best, 7mm Mag verses 300 WM for 1200 yard deer - as we don't need a premium game bullet, just simply run the numbers. Its back to simply BC verses velocity. Bryan Litz has said it all before...
Greg
ps Am I hearing from this thread that Hornady have released a 225gn 30 cal A-Max or am I getting confused??? If so that will change things for the 30 cal!!!
pps Just checked the Hornady website and see the 225gn Match, but no A-Max. Load, is that the bullet you're talking about, and where did you get the BC's from?

 

[load]

Man, these caliber discussions crack me up!
But just to go back to the original question, it was for a deer rifle, not Elk. In my opinion you do not need premium quality controlled expansion bullets for 1200 yard deer. In fact quite the reverse, you want the bullet that has the best combination of BC verses velocity to give you the best chance of hitting where you want to, and you need a bullet that will still expand well at the very reduced impact velocity at this range. Again, in my humble opinion, backed up by shooting a lot of deer at extreme ranges, the A-Max's, Bergers and other similar thin jacketed bullets are exactly what you want at this range. Sirocco's, AB's etc are far too hard to give you quick kills at 1200 yards on deer.
As for what's best, 7mm Mag verses 300 WM for 1200 yard deer - as we don't need a premium game bullet, just simply run the numbers. Its back to simply BC verses velocity. Bryan Litz has said it all before...
Greg
ps Am I hearing from this thread that Hornady have released a 225gn 30 cal A-Max or am I getting confused??? If so that will change things for the 30 cal!!!

its the amax without the plastic tip and yup! i've been shooting them in gusty winds of up to 16 mph. so far i'm hooked

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

For deer I agree with you but elk was mentioned later so that is why I mentioned it. I shoot both amax and berger bullets at long range caribou, deer and antelope here. Kills over 1000 yards with the amax this year.