Target/ELR 375 HE..

[THEIS]

Hello,

LOLOL

Funny as you have no idea who or what I am. You may want to realize that some of us have been in ELR for a living for many years and have lots to offer in regards to mistakes that were made while the ELR road was being paved so that others do not make those same mistakes.

1. Cheytac & Associates IS no longer around..Cheytac USA is but that completely different company.

2. I am a supporter of no camp until all data is released and confirmed but if you are speaking on behalf of "your camp" then I can surely turn my interest to the "other camp" and get onboard with them to offer what I have in regards to brass mfg, weapons mfg and International Government procurement's. I will tell you that whichever camp releasing verifiable data that is consistent and repeatable I will offer to manufacture brass in return for being able to manufacturer my big guns in the cartridge. So my questions aka argument for you are actually business based and I am looking for transparent answers, not "I only doing this vs doing that" answers.

3. So asking questions about data and testing is looking to draw someone into argument?? That would only be seen that way from someone that thinks there is an argument to be had.

4. Just because you have picked "your camp" and think anyone asking questions about your camp is belligerent and picking a fight does not mean we all have. Your issues with Swamplord are not mine but yet you reply to me as if your issues with him translate onto me. Sad on your part.

5. SO my direct question to you is....Do you speak for the 375HE and the potential business ventures it can have?

THEIS

 

[hubel458]

I'm to old/crippled to go long range test shooting,

others building guns with good target barrels will do that.

My barrel is junk compared to target barrels.

Fire only 3 shots at top loads all within 25 fps spread

We will tell folks that to have consistency back loads down a little.

So far 300 gr 3900, 325 gr(330gr made to bore rider) 3800.

Testing not happening fast, its serious cold, crappy weather. here in MI.

350 gr couple weeks. Then 375gr, then 400gr. We'll have it done before

other guns ready to fire.Ed

 

[hubel458]

quote------the potential business venture....................................
quote----manufacture brass in return for being able to manufacturer
my big guns in the cartridge

The case is public domain. please you can use it anyway you

want to. No permissions needed.

WE need people making cases there, could make 585 same time, Both public domain

It will perform just like Mitch's case with right load , 350gr with a SD of 3.4,

at 3500 in his good barrel .Cases just little different shoulder and neck.

And he backed that load down about 1.5% from max.Ed

 

[hubel458]

The 25 fps spread we know is nothing to brag about,

but we are just testing case possibilities, and the powder needed

to do that, And 95% or more shooters don't have powder for

such an overbore case, with bullets heavier than 225-250 gr,

IE, they don't have the 20 powders slower needed, slower than

RE 25, or W780. So we'll figure that part out for them

and at same time know what brass will take.ED

 

[hubel458]

quote- these velocities

Using pro-chrono -- 15' away. 1100 ft above sea level. Cold.

In one of my big Enfield test actions. positive claw extraction. Beefed up lugs to work

with 54,000 lbs bolt thrust if needed, IE if something goes over pressure.

In heavy thumbhole stock. Weight 23 lbs,

Case .634" base ahead of belt before firing, .636" after, and we measure

everyone load we shoot, as well as measure lengthening, primer pocket. etc.

Firing pin .080", bolt diameter .700" . We have extra ears listening for

any ignition delays, which easier with Enfield as it has long loud firing

pin fall, Ed

 

[Bravo 4]

I am wanting to build a big .375 and so I want to know what they are capable of. I want to know the conditions being used as I know that some are willing to push things to their limits to get the numbers as high as possible (whether they are selling things or not). If these numbers are from red lined loads then I would like to know so, that way I can expect to drop it down a notch or two to get loads that'll make $6 brass last more than a couple of firings. I just want to make an informed decision. To do so more info is needed, and I don't care to spend thousands of dollars on something I know little about.

As for Doublezranch, I'm waiting on his testing as well.
Thanks for your concern.

 

[hubel458]

These are top 65-70k psi loads, but cases are good for more than 6 rounds as

far as primer pockets holding good, Many guys using cheytacs at high

pressure pockets loose after 3 rounds. And we know you'll have to

drop down about 2-3% to get most accurate, you will still have speed with

right bullet, so that at two mile or similar shoots you will only need 120 min elevation,

instead of over 150 like the crowd has to use. And 2 secs less time of flight.

That is the goal. Ed

 

[Swamplord]

What is really going on here. Are you being the "truth police"? Do you want "proof" or you are going vigilante as so many have done before?

Ed's project started as a collaboration with another wildcatter. The other wildcatter broke the bargain. Claimed it was Ed's "fault" for pushing. Now you seem to be pushing Ed. Are we living in some form of double standard?

With the comments of Bravo 4 and THEIS. The thread will loose it's information exchange quality. Is that your goal?

Speaking of "truth" .... Mr. Seaman , how about you practice it, It can be good for the soul ... and what "camps" has your divisive nature separated long range shooters into ? I thought we were all in this together to better the sport of long range shooting and hunting ,

The truth was posted and you continue to ignore it and insert yourself into the "deal" of forming 500 for 500 pcs of brass between Ed Hubel and myself, which was called off/canceled by Ed Hubel and posted on this very forum and on his personal Facebook page, that is known to all and old news ... please stop spreading lies, is it too much to ask for ?

And For the last time..... there never was any "collaboration" regarding the 375 Warlord, you know it, Ed Hubel knows it..... It was my development and mine alone, Mr. Hubel tried to take and steer something that did not belong to him and my intention was to leave the 375 Warlord in it's wildcat status, where it remains and is still available to whoever wants to build one, my involvement with Ed Hubel was to release it to the public at his request so he can expedite the sale of his 585 HE brass, which was his main concern and something he made very clear in our phone conversations and emails ....... The need to sell his brass is the driving force and purpose behind all this drama .....

The truth you need to reveal also is how you took my dimensions and sized everything up larger to gain a few grains of capacity in order to proclaim a "better" cartridge .... well, the jokes on you boss , by enlarging the top of body you create issues with extraction, the longer case length is obviously in the neck, well, anything over 3.3" long is nothing but splits/cracks and uneven serrated case mouth created from flaring out during the neck down process from .585 to .375, it is not preventable and needs to be trimmed off to prevent case necks splitting under regular loads, the problem is magnified by using less steps to size case neck down , another problem is created by sizing cases so they drop in chamber to be fired off the belt, when you size a case so far down as to create a large headspace gap between shoulder datum on case vs chamber, firing off belt with full loads and bullet you create the onset of case head separation where the entire case moves forward and stretches/thins the area just ahead of the belt where it was already thinned and weakened by the belt forming and squeezing the hard case head down in diameter process, these were the key concerns I had regarding the 585 HE brass and designed the 375 Warlord to be fireformed off a die formed case with a solid crush fit of shoulder against chamber to prevent tearing the case body from the case head, and this is done with a charge of pistol powder and cream of wheat method where only the top of body fills out against the chamber without stretching/altering the case just past the belt .... once case is formed with "proper" headspace then when you fire full power loads the case head separation issue is halted for more firings on the case,

the belt and the use of it is the biggest problem with the 375 HE coupled with the 30 degree shoulder angle that will allow the case to grow outwards further pulling the case apart ..... by all means proceed and when a bunch of guys build guns and run into problems you will be forced to redesign and scale back your dimensions , the cool part is they can always set the barrel back and rechamber to the original design that has already solved all those issues ..... the 375 Warlord reamer IS AVAILBLE from JGS, Manson and PT&G ..... just holler at me if you need one at [email protected]

 

[hubel458]

I quit deal because you posted in other thread here that no cases were to be made,
while at same time not sending a few cases I asked for so I could start tests,
while at same time not answering mail,etc. And in the tirade on here dumb stuff
about needing bmg size dies, needing expensive silly crap, I just quit such goings on.

If my 585 bras so bad send back the half you didn't do, pay me the buck each
for ones you did do, that I offered them to you for, in email. (Only 3 buck loss per case.)
Which you didn't answer.

If you don't want the half you did do. I'll pay you for doing them.
In fact how about clean break, I'll buy all 585 brass back you got..

Most the rest of crap is gun writer brainwashed garbage..

 

[hubel458]

I use 11 steps make a case, face off rough end.,

Cases fired many times, and we section couple, no stretching

away from base, Neck lengthens, which no problem as chamber has room.

More neck to hold cases out for better fit of bullet in freebore. Cases without

bullets way down in powder space have less pressure problems and stretching.

Shallower shoulder , bullets loaded out right, less case sticking at top

pressures. Expanding cases with both belt and shoulder contact shows no

stretching with fireforming loads( fast powder, filler, plug) or hydraulic forming.

And we still have over .010" taper per side, along with shallower shoulder,

bullets loaded right, it works. If we load bullets down in below the bottom of the

shoulder, that a lot do, , we need twice as much taper, and still will have sticking long before

we get to our speed we have now, where maybe only .020' of some bullets are below neck,

and others nothing below. That is why I set up old barrel and freebore just to check

where bullets set, I won't do it, setting bullets way down in, and won't tell others to do it...Ed

 

[Bravo 4]

Thanks for the info Ed. I have been in contact with you before and you are always quick to respond.

That's in reference to my questions earlier.

 

[hubel458]

Thanks- we work at it.

Have all the doubters heard about us ''Muffin Top" case

necking companies, a little humor. But it works

Check it out...that is why belted cases work so great... absolutely the best.

And with my case dimensions I decided to enhance it,

Another thing, the posters on here connected to RUAG, why don't you

guys just make the 585 He brass and necked down 375 HE brass.

And get guys shooting the stuff over there. There are guys there

getting old like me, and would like real blasters before they croak.

They have capability. Ruag is 10,000 times bigger than Bruce..Ed

 

[Swamplord]

These are top 65-70k psi loads, but cases are good for more than 6 rounds as

far as primer pockets holding good, Many guys using cheytacs at high

pressure pockets loose after 3 rounds. And we know you'll have to

drop down about 2-3% to get most accurate, you will still have speed with

right bullet, so that at two mile or similar shoots you will only need 120 min elevation,

instead of over 150 like the crowd has to use. And 2 secs less time of flight.

That is the goal. Ed

the Chey Tac brass you mention is ancient history, new Bertram Brass is widely available in the states and that issue no longer exists........ I have friends who use Bertram brass for CheyTac and Snipe Tac cartridges and primer pockets hold up better than anything else out there.... plus the new Peterson 375 CT brass is supposed to equal the quality of Lapua brass, progress has been made in recent years and belted cases are no longer necessary or useful other than for nostalgic reasons

 

[Deleted member 46119]

...
5. SO my direct question to you is....Do you speak for the 375HE and the potential business ventures it can have?

THEIS

Well then, who are you. How can we verify and prove who you are?

I don't speak for Ed Hubel regarding potential business. I have tried to deal with the other guy. I like him. I like his wildcatting. I like his concepts as they mirror my own. I have a hard time dealing with him. The "Warlord" and "MJOLNIR" are facts. Back and forth between I can and I can't. Then trying to restrict access and route everything through him, with mark up. That is fine if it is a business venture. If it is a business venture, don't release it to the public domain then attempt to pull it back. Legally not possible. Check with Pamela Sue Anderson regarding what she released to the public then tried to pull back. Once released to the public, done never to return.