Target/ELR 375 HE..

[hubel458]

I been case making for 45 years and at first tried

shorter and fatter cases, never got what speed I thought we should, then

I started lengthening them out, and found a balance of

length of powder space to diameter of the powder space on

necked cases, that got closer to the ideal. Like my 585 a straight case can get over

14,000 ft lbs, at 70,000 psi, and as we neck it down the energy we can get at same

pressure, same weight powder, drops at every caliber going down,

so that as a 375 energy is about 9500 ft lbs. This is with same length case.

If case is shortened and made fatter to hold same powder at same

pressure, speed/energy drops more. IE if I could get a 375 HE with .300"

more length be better yet as we here can find powders to work...

When I made my long 458 many years ago it was straight, real long,

and 458 wildcat made from shorter blown out Jeffrey couldn't keep up

even though held same powder.. Ed

 

[hubel458]

Picture of the 416 HE target case, these run through

the hydro-die, test gun done, testing soon, to confirm specs.Ed

 

[hubel458]

The 416 HE case we kept neck same length as 375, case

same length, as neck diameter of 416HE was larger than our 375, and

the shoulder angle kept to same 30 deg, the shoulder moved ahead,

in our testing and forming with hydro die.

So it is about 2.870" from base, and 2.600" from belt, compared to

2.840" from base and 2.570" from belt, on our 375 HE,..Test firing

soon will get the exact figures that goes to reamer guys. Ed

 

[hubel458]

Some more testing and forming with 416 HE,

it is now .010" longer than 375 HE, gained capacity,

now 3.32" long, 350gr about 3700. The 408 HE version

looks to be same length, and be about about same speeds.Ed

 

[ELR Researcher]

I been case making for 45 years and at first tried

shorter and fatter cases, never got what speed I thought we should, then

I started lengthening them out, and found a balance of

length of powder space to diameter of the powder space on

necked cases, that got closer to the ideal. Like my 585 a straight case can get over

14,000 ft lbs, at 70,000 psi, and as we neck it down the energy we can get at same

pressure, same weight powder, drops at every caliber going down,

so that as a 375 energy is about 9500 ft lbs. This is with same length case.

If case is shortened and made fatter to hold same powder at same

pressure, speed/energy drops more. IE if I could get a 375 HE with .300"

more length be better yet as we here can find powders to work...

When I made my long 458 many years ago it was straight, real long,

and 458 wildcat made from shorter blown out Jeffrey couldn't keep up

even though held same powder.. Ed

Ed - very interesting. We discussed this a few years ago but I let the conversation go away. Since some of us shoot case-holder style rifles, and since you can "effectively" build your own brass, how would a 585 HE case of about 5" work necked down to .50 cal - very shallow shoulder? If you prefer to take this offline, please e-mail me at [email protected]. Thanks.

 

[hubel458]

Be great if a guy could get 5" cases like that,

If straight585 get about 18000 ft lbs, if necked to 50cal

get about 15,000. like 750 gr 50cal to 3000.

The longest case like ours Bruce can make in his

intermediate machine is 3.6". Maybe if I'm here long enough

or I hit lottery that length will happen. Ed

 

[ELR Researcher]

Be great if a guy could get 5" cases like that,

If straight585 get about 18000 ft lbs, if necked to 50cal

get about 15,000. like 750 gr 50cal to 3000.

The longest case like ours Bruce can make in his

intermediate machine is 3.6". Maybe if I'm here long enough

or I hit lottery that length will happen. Ed

Ed - since the .50 BMG is nominally 3.91, with a much larger cross section, the idea would be to use your base design and extend it enough to get 275-300 gr of powder (compressed) behind a very heavy 50 cal (1000 gr) bullet. You note 3.6 in his INTERMEDIATE machine. What can he do in (supposedly) largest machine? Thanks.

 

[hubel458]

I don't think his big machine can do case diameters of ours, nyati, etc

intermediate sizes as configured now, it does bmg and 12ga FH

8ga, and other real big cases, Probably need extensive retooling.

It can do 5 inch plus I think. . A 3.61" case necked to 50 cal would

hold at least 215gr, Ed

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I don't think his big machine can do case diameters of ours, nyati, etc

intermediate sizes as configured now, it does bmg and 12ga FH

8ga, and other real big cases, Probably need extensive retooling.

It can do 5 inch plus I think. . A 3.61" case necked to 50 cal would

hold at least 215gr, Ed

I threw a 3.61 HE case for a 50HE into QuickDesign and came up with 217 gr capacity so you are really close.

I put that model into QuickLoad with a Barnes 750 LR Bore Rider seated to the same depth as my last batch of 50 DTC. The powder that fit is H4381. RL-26 and 7828 were in there as well. Some day I will figure out the new 7977.

With a COAL of 5.41 which is just .050 less than a 50BMG or my current COAL for my 50 DTC, I came up with 2450fps at 56Kpsi and just shy of 10,000#lb of energy with plenty of room for more.

IMO a pretty cool idea. Almost 50 BMG or DTC velocities. Of course the pressures are much higher than BMG or DTC.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Information needed in true interest in 375HE, 416HE. I am making a 375HE.

I have made my forming die set. I have my resize reamer just need to do it. Waiting for Manson to finish my chamber reamer. About || close to pulling the barrel off my 1.55" Cheytac sized action. Currently a 300 RUM that shoots very well so a bit of a heart breaker to do it.

I can make dies.

I am not a master machinist by any means, nor am I a licensed gunsmith. Does anyone know if I need a GS cert/FFL to make dies?

If I take on this venture, turn around time would be pretty quick as it is the only thing I do right now.

PM me if you are really interested in dies.

What I am willing to make:
Forming die set
Hydro die setup
Resize die
Seater die
Neck sizer bushing die

Dies will be available in your choice of diameters. 7/8-14, 1-14, 1 1/4-12 or 1 1/2-12. 1 1/4-12 is common for Cheytac size cases like the HE. There is no cost difference.

 

[ELR Researcher]

I don't think his big machine can do case diameters of ours, nyati, etc

intermediate sizes as configured now, it does bmg and 12ga FH

8ga, and other real big cases, Probably need extensive retooling.

It can do 5 inch plus I think. . A 3.61" case necked to 50 cal would

hold at least 215gr, Ed

OK, so, at 5", necked to .50 cal, what would the case capacity be (approximate of course)?

 

[hubel458]

At 5" long be about 305 gr capacity, hold

about 285gr ball powder compressed under a bullet

loaded out in long freebore. Ed

 

[Lee in Texas]

Wow. Slightly more capacity than a .50BMG and takes higher pressure. Wild.

 

[ELR Researcher]

At 5" long be about 305 gr capacity, hold

about 285gr ball powder compressed under a bullet

loaded out in long freebore. Ed

Ed - then seems viable IF the pressure is OK (would it be?) and "Someone" would step up to move the issue forward with Bertram. [I'm guessing more than 285 grs of WC 895 - that stuff is tiny.]