Need Advice Glass Bedding a Winchester M70

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by Stirling, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. Stirling

    Stirling Member

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    I am replacing the stock on my pre-’64 Winchester Model 70 30-06. I bought a wood laminate stock that required a little in-letting and fitting and I want to bed it to make sure it has a solid fit. I have done a bunch of research on the process. I am not sure what to do about the barrel lug (if that is what it’s called). As you can see from the photo, there is a band around the barrel with a screw fitting that helps secure the barrel to the stock. If this was any other rifle, I would bed the receiver and free-float the entire barrel.

    My current thought is to bed everything from the receiver to the barrel band and let it free-float the rest of the way. That’s how it sat on the previous stock. But then my question is, should I put any pressure on that screw or should I let the barrel find its natural position within the bedding material? I could then screw it down after the bedding material cured.

    Another option would be to simply create an island of bedding material for that barrel band and let the rest of the barrel float. That still raises the question of screw tension.

    And yet another option would be to ignore the band, ignore the screw and let the entire barrel free-float. I’m sure the gun won’t fall apart if I leave out that screw.

    Since this is my first attempt at doing something like this, I thought I would get some other opinions. I’ve done a lot searching on the net, but couldn’t find much info. I hope someone here has done this before on a Model 70.
     

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  2. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    You cut off the right hand side of the image... Turn the action so one can see underneath all the way back to the tang. It looks like you just have a small area for bedding behind the recoil lug. Curious what you have back at the tang.

    BTW, insert the action screws so one can see where it is going to be held down too.

    I would not be inclined to bed that ring, it is too far forward of the action to do anything good...

    [​IMG]

    I think with actions with so little bearing area (from what I can see) one would have better success if you could make a 1/8" thick aluminum bedding block that fits the action precisely and then epoxy that into the stock. That would reduce the direct bearing load on the wood and make the performance more repeatable.

    Here is the action and bedding block from a TC Icon
    [​IMG]
     

  3. Daveinjax

    Daveinjax Well-Known Member

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    Imo leave the front ring free and see how it shoots . As for bearing surface you have a great action for holding bedding. If this is your first bedding job I would bed from the front of the magazine to about an 1 1/2 " down the barrel and at the back of the action around the tang and rear action screw.
    The guy telling you you need an aluminum bedding block either doesn't have a clue about bedding a model 70 or any rifle for that matter or he's selling costom aluminum bedding blocks. The '06 is a mild round that is not hard on bedding and a model 70 holds a bed better than most. Take your time , use hand tools and enjoy your project. No power tools unless you are really good with them. You can make a mess of a stock in the blink of an eye with the dremel tool.
     
  4. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    DaveinJax, I related what a well known gunmaker actually did on their "top of the line" factory rifle with a flat action. Not speculation. Opinions are a dime per dozen.

    There is no doubt that flat bottomed actions are trickier to bed than cylindrical ones. Part of that is because a flat bottomed / square sided action does not "nest" well (very good location vertically but poor laterally) and partly because the way it is cut the actual surface area for bedding is quite restricted. Some custom actions resolve this issue by using hexagonal or octagonal stock which allows enough "draw" to let the action come free of the bedding material after its sets up.

    I have built a lot of precision fixtures for a living and the only time you can get good location out of flat things is with 2 dowel holes.. Whereas V blocks give you constraint in 2 axis right away.

    The OP is clearly within his rights to do this job however he wants. I am also not selling anything. I just happen to own an Icon.
     
  5. Daveinjax

    Daveinjax Well-Known Member

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    And that aluminum bedding block for that pre 64 Winchester is going to cost a mint if it is going to be anywhere close of as good a fit as impression molded in devcon steel. That was made long before CNC milling machines and each one was hand finished by humans. There is a gracious plenty of a recoil lug to hold that 30-06.
    PS ; there is another good reason not to buy an Icon , no recoil lug. I didn't know they skipped the recoil lug on Icons .

    Oh , l happen to own a couple of m70's that I bedded so I'm not just relating what I heard about another type of rifle.
     
  6. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    If you read what was in the image posted, they have 3 recoil lugs, matched to the bedding block. The recoil lug is only there to constrain 1 axis, one needs more than that for a good bedding job. Usually the fit of the cylindrical action in the bedding constrains the other 2, but not available in this design.
     
  7. Daveinjax

    Daveinjax Well-Known Member

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    And that relates how to a model 70 ? The only reason icons need a metal block to hold them from looking at the picture is that it's going in a cheap plastic noodle stock. The original poster is bedding a model 70 with what is really a generous recoil lug into a relatively strong laminate stock.
     
  8. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, for sure an Icon goes in a noodle stock...
    [​IMG]

    It seems to me you suffer from foot in mouth disease....
     
  9. Daveinjax

    Daveinjax Well-Known Member

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    You got me there , I didn't know they made them with wood stocks too. And what does this have to do with bedding a model 70 ? Other than proving that you have a deep knowledge of Icon marketing and models I don't see how it applies to the subject at hand.

    To the original poster I'm sorry for this silly argument and I'm out.
     
  10. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    The common theme is that it is (was) a current FLAT BOTTOMED ACTION and the OP wanted ideas how to bed his flat bottomed action. 40 years ago, using bedding blocks was not quite "in vogue" and the OP has more options today than ever.

    Looks like Winchester learned this lesson themselves: America Outdoors - The Aluminum Revolution

    Quote:
    To see what we mean, you need look no further than a class of affordable heavy-barreled bolt actions, such as the $705 Remington Model 700VS Varmint Synthetic and Winchester's Model 70 Synthetic Heavy Varmint, $764, to find more sub-inch guns. Recent testing we conducted with these models in .223 Remington found they shot half-inch 100-yard five-shot average groups with at least one ammo brand.


    Not surprisingly, the Winchester Model 70 Synthetic Heavy Varmint included pillar bedding and a full-length aluminum block, machine-cut to fit the receiver, and built into the composite stock. Winchester calls this the Pillar Plus Accu Block bedding system, and it includes glass bedding around the front and rear stock screw area of the receiver.


    A satin stainless-steel finish on the gun's 26-inch free-floated barrel contrasted nicely with the blued receiver. A 0.87-inch-thick muzzle diameter accounted for much of the gun's 10-pound, 4-ounce weight. At the range, our best five-shot group average (five total groups) with this gun came with PMC's 55-grain hollow-point boattail bullet: 0.38 inches.
     
  11. Stirling

    Stirling Member

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    Thanks for your responses. I didn't mean to start an argument about this. After reading about aluminum block bedding, I can see the advantages. But Daveinjax raises a good point about the cost being a factor in deciding to forgo that for now. My main question was what to do about that barrel ring and both of you gave the same answer. Free float it and see how it shoots. It will be easier to bed that later if it needs it than to remove the bedding if it causes a problem.

    BTW Westcliffe01, attached is a better picture of the receiver. Don't know if it changes anything, but I thought I would post it.
     

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  12. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    I expected it would have 3 screws. Do you plan on using pillars for the action screws ? If you do that it should give you the lateral stability you need, at least on the first and last action screws. It will also take the compression of the action screws out the wood and change the variability that causes with changes in humidity.
     
  13. Stirling

    Stirling Member

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    I hadn't planned on using pillars but now I think that is a good idea. Thanks for all your advice.
     
  14. Rocky7

    Rocky7 Member

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    I also have one I need to bed and was hoping to find advice from someone who has done it.

    As for pillars, I know they are all the rage but I've had pretty good results bedding the entire action and the bottom metal. Nothing moves - moisture or no moisture.

    Anyway, my hunch would've been to free float on both sides of he barrel band by using bedding tape there and leave the barrel band in contact, using surgical tubing to hold it all together. If I don't like the result, it's easy enough to remove the cured bedding compound under the band......

    If the OP comes by here again, I'd sure like to know what you did and how it turned out.