Microlon Gun Juice Results

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by SHRTSHTR, Aug 26, 2010.

  1. SHRTSHTR

    SHRTSHTR Well-Known Member

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    Thought I would share my findings after treating my barrel with GJ. I would like to thank "Phorwath & MontanaRifleman" for their help and insight on this endeaver.

    Microlon has come out with a new method for treating a barrel. I modified the procedure a little but the end results were the same. The rifle I treated is a 338 Lapua Improved. Lilja 30" fluted, 1-10 twist with a #8 contour. I broke the barrel in 1st and after 35 rounds down the tube i started the GJ treatment.

    I stripped the rifle down to barreled action. I used a rifle cradle to hold the barrel. The barrel was heated to 120-150 degrees using a Snapon heat gun. I used a IR lazer to monitor the heat. Once the barrel reached the desired temp I ran a wet patch of GJ down the bore. I followed up with a wet nylon brush to scrub the GJ into the barrel. I did this two times and kept the heat to it during the entire procedure. Next I started running 1 wet patch through the bore. I waited for each run of the patch to completely dry the GJ in the bore. I repeated this procedure 12 times. GJ instructions called for 8-10 times. I figured a couple more could not hurt.

    I also used a Lucas Bore Guide during this entire procedure. Did not want to get any GJ in my chamber. While I was doing the barrel I also treated my Lugs on the bolt and raceways on the Stiller TAC-338 action. I heated the action and the bolt and treated one time.

    There was a noticable difference in smoothness when working the bolt with GJ treatment.

    Onto the testing. I had chronoed my non-fireformed cases days earlier. At 99gns Retumbo my muzzle velocity averages 2,867 fps over a 5 shot string. It was reccomended by Microlon to back off a little on loads after treating barrel. I loaded 3 rounds at 98gns and noticed a 50fps increase over the last time I had shot at that charge weight.

    My next step was to shoot the 15 rounds i had loaded at 99gns. I shot all 15 rounds and let the barrel cool between shots. My Oehler 35P gave me an average increase in velocity of 39fps, velocity was 2,906fps.

    Now remember that this was using Virgin 338 Lapua brass that was not fireformed.

    Earlier testing with fireformed brass I was getting 2,980fps with 102gns of Retumbo, 300gn Sierra's, .030 off the lands. This was the max load for this rifle before GJ.

    I am waiting on Neil Jones custom dies to reload the fireformed brass and see what velocity I can get with the GJ treatment. I think I will be close or a little over 3000fps with max loads. However, I suspect my accuracy load will be under 3000fps. More testing will tell.

    I am not very good at all this but hope you guys enjoy :).
     
  2. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Did GJ after breakin myself with a 30" Rock Creek and 338AX and have ended up at 102g Retumbo at 2980fps as my max accurate load. Be interesting to see what your further testing reveals. For the time being, I'm discontinuing ongoing treating after cleaning with GJ as a test to see what, if anything changes...
     

  3. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    SHRTSHTR,

    Very interesting and thanks for posting. That increase in velocity is similar to what I found with my 300 Win Mag and 210gr VLDs. I had to reduce my powder charges following GJ treatment in order to reduce my MV back down to my former accuracy load.

    But you never know; your gun might shoot very well at the higher MV obtained with the GJ treated barrel.

    One thing's for certain. The new and modified method of applying the GJ treatment is much less labor and time intensive than the former instructions/method.

    Good shootin'
     
  4. SHRTSHTR

    SHRTSHTR Well-Known Member

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    jmden,
    I will be shooting fireformed cases very soon. i am not so concerned about velocity as I am accuracy. I may get both :D.

    Phorwath,
    I never tried the old way but am very pleased with the new method. it will be interesting to see if these gains are consistent with time. I have heard that you only have to do treatment one time only.

    Hoping to find a accuracy node in the 2900's. I will be pleased if I can accomplish this.
     
  5. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

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    As I recall, you're supposed to run a patch of the GJ down the bore as the last thing you do when cleaning and then when you get out to shoot run a wet patch through before your first shot. Sound right guys?

    Edit: Interesting how 102g is producing exactly the same speed. Several chrono'd 102g loads gave a corrected average MV (ES less than 10fps) of 2982, but I've been using 2980 in Exbal and I need to do more traj. validation work, but seems right on in Exbal at this time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2010
  6. SHRTSHTR

    SHRTSHTR Well-Known Member

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    jmden,
    The way I understand GJ treatment is that it only has to be done once. I have heard of people doing what you are proposing. I plan on using the treatment maybe every 200-300 rounds.

    According to Microlon, the old method (Your method) is still a viable option. I am a little afraid to run a wet patch of GJ down the bore and then shoot a round. I was going to have my smith do the GJ treatment and he refused to do it. He claimed that he has seen barrels bulged out when the bore was left wet. He claims he used his bore scope to see this. I have no idea if this is true or not.

    Whether you have a wet bore and shoot a round or heat the barrel and run a patch. I think you will get the same results. Basically we are baking the GJ to our bores.

    I prefer heating the barrel and running a patch. I was able to see light smoke come out of the barrel after running a patch. The patches were almost try when they came out the muzzle.

    It would be interesting to know your case capacity. I would bet ours are very close to the same. I did not get low ES with 102 gns of Retumbo. Es was if I remember correctly 24. These were 1st time fireformed cases. I am hoping that with the increase in velocity I am seeing with GJ that I will find an accuracy node close to 2980fps.

    I will be trying 102gns Retumbo again in a few days. If everything comes up the way it did in my initial testing...I should hit real close to 3020fps for a max load. I was seeing ejector marks on my cases at 102.5gns. One of the shots at 102.5gns had a slightly sticky bolt. I think I will need to back down 1-2 grns but will not know for sure until I test.
     
  7. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    I would only apply GJ after I knew the bore was stripped entirely clean of any dirt, carbon, or copper fouling. If you do a thorough, complete cleaning of the bore, then I think you could run a wetted patch of GJ down the bore and leave it dry until shooting it the next time. You would basically be adding a treatment to the bore after having thoroughly cleaned the bore. From the GJ instructions and folks, I plan to do that about every 100 - 200 rounds fired down my GJ treated bore. Like maybe once or twice a year based on the rate of my shooting. I don't think there's any need to do this every time you clean your bore, AFTER the initial treatment with GJ has been completed.

    SHRTSHTR,

    I'm also interested in seeing how long your velocity increase is maintained. If your MV starts to fall off, then maybe that would be the indicator that a maintenance/supplemental treatment is in order? Dunno. I don't have the length of time of experience yet. The velocity increase in my 300 Win Mag seems to have been permanent, at least till now.
    Hope you find a sweet spot at just under 3000 fps! :)
     
  8. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense phorwath, that's just something (use a somewhat reduced fouling load for the first 2 shots after gh application before shooting) I've been doing to try and keep whatever gj does working as consistenly over time as possible. On the rifle I'm working with now, I've just been running a patch of gj down the bore as a final step to bore cleaning before storage after letting Bore-Tech work it's magic completely and then shoot a couple of fouling shots and off to the races. Just trying to keep things as consistent over the long haul in the bore as possible. 'long ranger' from Alberta Tactical was one of the first guys to mention gj here that I recall. He's used it for years, specifically on Rock Creek barrels (he's the CA dist.) with great results, he says and after shooting he runs a couple of pathes down the barrel:

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/anything-between-338-edge-338-am-27830/index3.html
     
  9. SHRTSHTR

    SHRTSHTR Well-Known Member

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    I hope the treatment lasts. plan on doing the same thing you guys are doing. Occasionally applying a coat or two.

    Off to the range for more testing :D.
     
  10. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

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    SHRTSHTR,
    Got up at o'dark thirty this morning to head to the hills and my shooting spot to try and do some trajectory validation in calm conditions. Shot the 102.0g Retumbo load using 2980mv in Exbal at 457yd (10 deg down), 897yd (4 deg down) and 977yd (4 deg down). Using Litz's 300SMK data, the 457 was spot on vert, the 897yd, 2 of 4 were spot vert/hor right in the 3.5" bulls eye (1/2 mild steel--those 300SMK's ALMOST go through) and I think I bobbled the other two that went about 1/2MOA high. The sun had just hit the slope the target was on a few minutes prior and the updraft was starting by looking at my cheater flag at 977yd. The 977yd 3 of 4 went sub 1/2min and withing 1.5" l/r with about a 4" vert spread just over the 2" bull--and I must've pulled the other one to the right about 7"---arrgh. This last target had alot more of the now sunny slope under it and the cheater flag showed a lift, so at this fairly early point in the game of trajectory validation, I'm chalking the high shots and vert. stringing at 977 to the variable upslope wind. Every single shot fired today would've easily been a dead elk/deer. I'm embarrased to say I still haven't quite settled on a consistent hold on this thing so from what I've seen, if I'm putting rounds out of the group, it's my fault in my shooting. It seems alot like my unbraked 300RUM in that a very hard hold seems to work best. I got a feeling that I am the weak link in the system that Kirby put together for me. Any results from your end?
     
  11. SHRTSHTR

    SHRTSHTR Well-Known Member

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    jmden,
    Nice shooting for sure. Seems you are getting to know your rifle well. I too have been working on my hold. i have a brake on mine and use a moderate hold.

    I shot on Friday tryng to find a load I can shoot at distance. 97gns Retumbo gave me 2855fps with an ES of 10 and 4 SD. This load shot right at 1/2 moa at 200 yards. This was a 8 shot group. Remember that this is Virgin brass and was not fireformed yet. Hmmm, well now it is :D.

    I have about 50 rounds to shoot to get my 100 pieces of brass fireformed. I can then step it up to a hotter load in the fireformed cases. I am also working with a new ballistics program and want to see its effect at longer distance. This way I am not just wasting barrel life fireforming my brass.

    It is fun but time consuming!
     
  12. Paramore

    Paramore New Member

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    Greetings. Just a quick note about the microlon. I have them using it for more than 15 years. It seems to work well in my guns however I have no substantial data to back that up the stick when it comes to testing it I believe I may be able to help you. One of your Forums mentioned a new technique which involves heating the metal prior to and during the treatment. This is what we do but we use it for Automotive, and motorcycle performance. Sometimes machine or equipment, and always in our gravity downhill races. What we do is clean the parts as well as possible. Scrubbing with hot soap and water air drying, sometimes ultrasonic or just wiping down with acetone. We heat the components with heat lamps and we spray on microline. The parts should be hot enough to pull smoke off of them we do this three times then wipe the parts down or even wash them again and assemble them . You can also get their metal treatment but we found it likes to go into fresh engines better than resin field gummy ugly high mileage Motor. I don't know the power increase by treating the individual parts when building a fresh engine but running the treatment through an already built engine seems to gain about one and one half percent power and a couple drivers note that it seems to make it read quicker or a little bit more responsive. It's not going to give you whiplash, or 10% horsepower with 10 more miles per gallon but it does give us a performance edge we actually used to keep it secret until the word got out. Also the downhill racing wheels with ball bearing hubs will spin much longer than untreated ones. We have won over $10k in downhill Derby money that was all donated to charity and made many kids happy. In the automotive we have literally dozens and dozens of world's records, track records and championships that ran microlon I'm a believer I believe the tip to heat the parts up is very good and very important. Spray it on you should get some smoke when it dries hit it again and maybe a third time. Scrubbing it in or rubbing it in seems to help as well.
    Perfection is something you aim for but can never achieve.
    Dan