Microlon Gun Juice Report

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by MontanaRifleman, Jan 16, 2010.

  1. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    Several members have asked me to share my experience with Microlon Gun Juice and after sitting on this for a while, I am finally getting it posted.

    I went through a barrel break-in process using Microlon Gun Juice with two used Senderos - a 300 RUM and a 25-06. It’s a product that is advertised as a dry film lubricant. It is also advertised to help stop corrosion and increase muzzle velocity and increase barrel life. To apply it requires cleaning the bore of all cooper and carbon fouling. Then a wet patch is used to wet the bore and the instructions encourage brushing it in to prep the metal. The Gun Juice is supposed to be absorbed into the pores of the metal and then make a permanent coating on the surface of the bore by firing shots through the wet coated bore.

    The 300 RUM had 26 rounds through it when I started. Six of them I fired using Rem Power Level III, 180 Scirrocos, to get a baseline velocity before the break-in. They averaged 3356 fps. After that I cleaned the barrel completely free of copper with Bore Tech Eliminator and Wipeout. It was obviously a fouler. The rifle was about 3 years old and I suspect there was some corrosion and pitting?

    I fired a group from the 25-06 for an accuracy check and baseline velocity also. It shot a 3 shot .24” group at about 110 yds and average velocity of about 2940 with some Win factory ammo. I went clean it out and it took five days to completely clean it, four of which were soaking with Wipeout, 4-8 hours per treatment – WOW!!! I got it borescoped and the smith said it was fire cracked from throat to muzzle. He said he was surprised I could hit anything with it.

    I took the rifles to the range and started a one shot and clean and then applied Gun Juice and fire again, repeating this process for about 20 times as recommend by the GJ instructions for SS barrels. The whole process required several trips to the range and it was brutally tedious. The instructions claim that GJ is a good cleaner and to clean the bore with GJ between shots. It is not a good cleaner and I used a number of other products for cleaning. I usually cleaned with Bore Tech Eliminator and then removed the BTE residue with an ammonia based cleaner followed by Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber to remove all cleaning residues before applying GJ. I’m not how sure how effective it was in getting the BTE out which leaves a stubborn coating behind. This may have interfered with the GJ to bond with the steel in the bore?

    With the 25-06, I only partially cleaned the bore the first 6 or 7 shots with the idea of sealing copper into the cracks which seemed to work because it was getting easier to clean. After that I did a more thorough job of cleaning. After about 20 rounds of this, I fired a string of the Win factory ammo that I had fired for the baseline velocity and it averaged about 2980. It appeared to shoot a little faster than prior to the break-in process, but I hesitate to say for sure it did. The light conditions were a little different but were relatively good both times. I just don’t completely trust my chronys. It was still fouling a good bit although much easier to clean than before. I did another 10 rounds of the clean and GJ treatment which seemed to help a little, but didn’t see anymore real significant improvement. It was till shooting well and it seemed to start loosing accuracy after about 60-70 rounds. Cleaning was very much improved but still fouling significantly. It now takes about a dozen wet patches of BTE to get most of the heavy stuff out, then about 1-2 hours of soaking the BTE for about 20 min per soaking followed by about two extended Wipeout soakings. This is a lot of cleaning but it is much easier than before the break-in which took 4 days of soaking Wipeout, 4-8 hrs per soaking. It will be interesting to see how long accuracy lasts in this barrel based on the smith’s observation with the borescope and the follow on GJ treatments. It presently has about 250 rounds through it since I got it and is still shooting very well – for the most part, sub .5 MOA.

    With the 300 RUM, I cleaned to bare metal or almost bare metal after each shot. The RUM was a heavy fouler. The previous owner did hunt with it a few times and had it for a couple of years so it may have got some pitting. After about 10 shots, it was taking less wet patches to get the heavy build up out. I think it’s hard to say if the GJ was responsible for that or just results from the break-in process. I did this for about 20 shots and cleaning seemed to take only about half the effort it used to require. I fired the remaining factory rounds through it to see if there was an increase of velocity. The first two shots were about 50-60 fps faster than the baseline group, but then a cloud obscured the sun and the chrony readings dropped to about equal with the baseline velocities. So once again, there is evidence that the GJ may have increased velocity but I thinks it’s hard to say for sure.

    WARNING!!! Something very important to note is that I experienced higher pressures with the first 1-2 shots after a GJ application. “Normal” max or near max working loads became over pressured when fired through a wet GJ bore. I use light 2-3 loads to foul my bore after a GJ application.

    In summary, I can’t come to many hard conclusions. There seems to be evidence, especially with the results from the 25-06, that GJ is an effective bore treatment resulting in less fouling and easier cleaning. Both guns still foul considerably but are considerably easier to clean than before the treatments. There also seems to be evidence that it does increase velocity by maybe as much as 40 fps in my rifles, but I would want to see more testing and results on that before saying anything sure reasonable certainty. One thing to keep in mind, is that I am not totally sure that the cleaning products I used, may have interfered with the Gun Juice’s ability to be absorbed into the surface of the bore. In the future, I will do a one shot and clean break-in prior to the GJ treatment to mitigate that possible interference.

    I will continue to use GJ as an after cleaning lubricant and I will continue to use it for break-in for future barrels and gather as much data with it as I can. It would be very difficult to prove if it actually increases barrel life. I think a good way to go about testing this claim would be to use to identically built overbore rifles and shoot identical loads through them, one using GJ and one not. That would be a lot of fun shooting but a little too spendy for my blood.

    Hope this helps.

    Mark
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2010

  2. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    To those of you reading this and Have used Gun Juice, I am very interested in knowing if you also experienced higher pressures when shooting a wet or recently treated bore.

    I haven't experienced these kind of pressures when using other cleaners or lubes.
     

  3. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    MR,
    I used miscellaneous left-over bullets when I was applying the Gun Juice to my bores. Bullets that I had no real use for. I purposely dropped the pressure levels in my reloads during the GJ treatments because I was concerned about overpressuring a wetted bore. I don't normally shoot wetted bores and didn't know what to expect. So I can't comment on elevation of pressure.

    Good write-up.
     
  4. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

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    Good write up, MR. Your experience and lack of concrete conclusions are in line with what I've experienced. I can't say for sure that GJ has helped, but there does seem to be some evidence that inidcate that it has.

    Brutal application process, but I tell you what, with all that cleaning, I learned and noticed some things about cleaning that I never had before and realized that I'd been doing a crappy job of it when I thought I'd been doing the right stuff. That much cleaning in a short period taught me a few things.

    I too wondered about what I felt was BTE residue--interesting. It seems to leave a light bluish color to the bore, is that what you see? I also learned how good a copper remover (in part to earlier posts of yours, I believe) BTE can be if you let it do it's thing.

    I don't know if during this process I may have finally (due to learning what cleaning down to bare metal really means after trying a few things and a few observations) actually done a proper barrel break in as well.

    I did end up using JB a few times as I could not seem to get to bare metal otherwise.

    So, with so many variables in the whole process it's difficult to come to an obvious conclusion. I do think it's been a good, helpful learning experience for me, however, on the whole.

    Jon
     
  5. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    MR,

    thanks for sharing your experience with us. Definitely a lot of work but the fact that you will continue using it, kind of tells me you're leaning towards believing that it helps. Thanks again and good write-up!!!
     
  6. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for taking your time to share with the rest of us your experience with GJ...good read.
     
  7. 4bycamper

    4bycamper Well-Known Member

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    Thanks MR. Your great write up answered a lot of questions I didn't know to ask. :D I have not spent any time with a bore scope so I can only guess what that looks like. Fire cracking from chamber to muzzle?? Go figure.

    None of my current rifles are that hard to clean. Makes me wonder about some of my high volume rifles. Wonder how my favorite rarely-gets-clean AR 15 looks? Thousands of rounds later, I'll bet it's toasty too. OK, I'll Gun Juice it just to see.
    Also my new one with the SS barrel sends 162 SST's @ 3045 ave. This would make a good velocity test.

    .
     
  8. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    Jon, I agree that it has been a big learning process. I have learned a lot about cleaning in this process as well as over the past couple of years. It would be a lot less brutal proces with a quality custom bore for sure.

    I felt the BTE on the rifle surfaces more than I saw it down the bore. it seemed to linger on my finger tips for days. BTE is a very good copper remover but not quite what I originally thought it was. It does start acting immediately, but when it gets down to the stuborn stuff you need to let it soak for a while. I have been able to use it to clean down to bare metal, but wiht a bad fouling bore it will take a few longer soakings of 30 min or more. I found the easiest (not necessarily the shortest) is to get most of the copper out with BTE and then soak a couple of times with Wipeout. BTE gets about 70-80% of the copper out very quickly, but the rest of the stuborn stuff is easier to get with Wipeout (or Gunslick foam cleaner which works about as well as Wipeout in my experience).
     
  9. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    For anyone considering doing a GJ break-in, I recommend doing a "normal" one shot - one clean break-in first. This will accomplish a couple of things. It will polish or burnish the surface of the bore making it easier for the GJ to "seal" the steel surface of the bore on a molecular level. It will also making cleaning all copper and powder between each shot easier which can make removing all cleaning product residue easier. The steel surface must be free of any material that might prevent the GJ from impregnating its pores.

    Use a bore cleaner that is both effective and easy to remove. Follow the directions, including shaking the GJ.

    I would be very interested in hearing results from anyone else using this product.

    Mark
     
  10. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    I one of the outcasts who clean a bore to metal -after every trip to the range.
    I do this to prevent all you're running into.
    Now I use WS2, and pre-foul the clean bore with a dry burnishing before the gun goes back in the safe. My bullets are coated as well.

    I use Speedy's cleaning method, but flush the bore to squeaky clean afterward with the best alcohol I can get.
    I would think this would work for GJ as well.
    You just have to get your bores where basic cleaning -works.

    But I get the impression here that GJ is not suited for pre-fouling. You mention fouling -with a few shots. If it's leaving the bore wet, at all, it does not pre-foul.
    It sounds like it reduces copper and extends accurate shot count though.

    I think I'll stick with WS2. There is no reach to see it provide more than GJ so far.
    It's just a matter of barrel life..
    I don't think WS2 changes barrel life as I apply it(with full cleanings).
    GJ might.. But like you said, that remains to be seen.
     
  11. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

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    What is WS2? Not sure I've heard of that.
     
  12. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    Tungsten disulphide
    Lower Friction

    I got some about 10yrs ago from RoseMill and still have enough for the rest of my life.
     
  13. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    Mike, I'm not sure what you mean by "all you're running into" If it's the pressure from a wet GJ bore, that's not an issue if you use a couple of light loads to foul with. The GJ can be dry patched after wtting the bore with it or it will dry on it's own after a period of time. I still however use a light load for fouling. And if I have cleaned my rifle, lubed with GJ and stored for a while, I'll run another wet patch of GJ (followed with a little scrubbing with a nylon brush) through the bore before firng the fouling shots to freshen up the coating.

    The WS2 sounds sound interesting.

    Mark
     
  14. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    One more thought on barrel break-in. If I ever break-in any more factory barrels, I'll use KG2 for the first few shots. KG2 is a mild polishing abrasive and is recommended for barrel break-in. After cleaning the bore to bare metal, you run a wet patch of KG2 through then fire. It's a kind of fire lapping but supposidly milder than fire lapping. I think this would speed and improve the break-in process for rough barrels. Dont over do it though.


    KG-2 Bore Polish 4 oz.