Match bullet question, need opinions or experiences please!

[backwoods83]

I finished my new 6.5x284 hunting rifle about a week and a half ago and have been testing with the amp jacketed amaxs and seem to have hit a wall with it. It is very accurate but it takes 57.8grns of H1000 or 59.3grns of Retumbo to reach 3000fps, the H1000 did 3012fps and the Retumbo did 3009. The barrel is 26.5" finished 4 groove. I have also tried my normal bench loads of H4350 and 4831sc and with the amaxs I can not get the speed I should be without getting into pressure with any powder I have tried, has anyone else had similar results with the amaxs verses lapua, berger, or sierra?

 

[rscott5028]

I think you are getting the speed you should expect.

That's not an especially long barrel.

Why does a few extra fps matter for a hunting rifle?

-- richard

 

[backwoods83]

Well the reason I ask is because I shoot 1k bench guns with lapua scenars and bergers and can get 3050fps easy with a 30" barrel and Imr or H4350, and have very good brass life. I'm guessing if I tried that compressed load of Retumbo in a 30" barrel it would be close to 3200 and that's only 3.5" difference in barrel. The reason I want the extra velocity is because it is a hunting rifle and decent consistency( 10-20es sd) I don't need single digits for this one because I'm not concerned about 4-6" groups at 1k, the accuracy is there, just want more power.

 

[rscott5028]

123gr or 140gr?

I was assuming the latter and 3200 seems high even from a 30" barrel.

-- richard

 

[backwoods83]

The 140s, I have broke 3150 with Imr4350 and 139 scenars from a 30" barrel but it was hot. I never use amaxs for competetion because runout with the polymere tips causes wobble, but I thought they would make a good hunting bullet because they do well in 7mm and 30cal from my experience. Most are reporting 2920-2950 with 140 bergers and H4831sc at about 53grns in a 24" barrel, I have to use 54.8 to get 2970 with 2.5"s more barrel, so that's why I asked if anyone had run into these issues with the amaxs. I have some bergers loaded but the weather sucks, when I test them, if they do like I hope I will just use them. Just wanted to blow up some ground hogs and feild dress some deer with the amaxs and at about 15$ less a box. If I don't get the results oh well, when the barrel is toasted I will rebarrel it in 6.5x257wby!

 

[Rusty54]

For my 1st post on this forumn, just let my .02 be that your quest for speed may be quite adverse to your need for accuracy, which is a more technical way of restating what others have already said. Specifically having enough velocity to have adequate knock down power at the distance you intend to shoot is important. but hitting your mark matters so much more.

 

[backwoods83]

Rusty accuracy isn't the issue at hand, I have already shot several groups ranging from 1/8moa to 3/8moa, but today I did it at 3016fps with 59.3grns of Retumbo with 140 bergers, had a 7fps es from 15 rounds. Best group was .169" so I can deal with that until I go 6.5x257wby and launch them at 3300fps, 1000yrd laser beam!

 

[Trnelson]

Rusty accuracy isn't the issue at hand, I have already shot several groups ranging from 1/8moa to 3/8moa, but today I did it at 3016fps with 59.3grns of Retumbo with 140 bergers, had a 7fps es from 15 rounds. Best group was .169" so I can deal with that until I go 6.5x257wby and launch them at 3300fps, 1000yrd laser beam!

I am sorry admin but this thread should be deleted or firmly corrected. I dub thee king of the hot rod red line gun club, or at least court jester. I sincerely hope you read this, take two minutes and stop and think about what you are doing. At the risk of sounding like a jerk ( sorry again ) I'll just as kindly and firmly say, in the most friendly voice i can... You are WELL PAST published max data for every manual I have on the shelf. I'm just glad you aren't at the bench next to me or my family at the range. I just hope to God nobody reading this thread trys any load approaching anything near what you are trying to pull. Here is a copy of a load the load from the Hornady manual for comparison it is the fastest load listed , 142smk hybrid 100v powder 45.0g for 2,666 and a maximum charge of 49.5g for 2,901. I suggest as kindly as I can ( sorry again) you use your fingers to get ahold of a relading manual and turn some pages on safe practices, while you still have them. What you are doing in no way is reasonable, intelligent, cool or even remotely safe. Steel fatigues and becomes brittle when repeatedly stressed close to its gross maximum yield strength, eventually it fails. In rifles it is extremely violent and very unexpected. It will eventually blow up in your face. Less experienced reloaders look at these threads and think they can try stupid stuff like this in their rifles. A few of them wind up with a face full of their rifle and minus fingers. Before you post stuff of this nature please stop and think about how ridiculous what you are bragging about really is. The life you save may be your own or mine. I am truly sorry admin for having to write this but safety is at the very core of what we need to focus on.

 

[backwoods83]

First off I did not mention to anyone to try this. Second I have no pressure signs. Third there is no "standard pressure rating for this cartridge. Lastly I have yet to find any data with Retumbo and I use Hodgdons, speer, hornady, lyman, alliant, and nosler data. I reccomend always starting LOW and working up, any reloader with common sense will do so! If my cases are all still useable after firing it would make me believe the rifle will stay together since steel is much harder than brass. Now maybe you should go back and look at data from 20-30 years ago and see the effect lawyers have on reloading manuals. Another member here uses a load warmer than mine with the same bullet powder and chambering and shares it all the time. Everyone should know to practice safe loading methods, like I said common sense. By the way what does this have to do with the question I asked again?

 

[backwoods83]

Two more things. Stop looking at data for a 6.5x284win, a 6.5x284 norma has a max oal almost .400" longer than the winchester version. Second in a 6.5x284win 49.5grns of Hybrid 100v under a 142 sierra at 2.9" oal will destroy a 1.25$ case, that isn't close to being safe, its about 66000 psi.

 

[Trnelson]

Thank you for again for clearing that up for all of us meer mortals and proving without a singular doubt how truly wreckless you are. I pity anyone foolish enough to shoot near you. Shame on you.

 

[backwoods83]

Like I said maybe you should go preach to Greyfox and several other members that use 53-55grns of H4831sc or 58.5-59.5grns of Retumbo on a regular basis, they must be foolish as well. Also don't buy any factory ammo from Sweden or Finland if pushing max bothers you. I hope you don't own a weatherby and shoot factory ammo either.

 

[rscott5028]

Reloaders should never take anything for granted.

Loads posted on the Internet might be safe for one rifle and dangerous in another rifle for many reasons.

The same is true with data published in Reloading Manuals. Never start with a Max load. Always work up using safe practices.

Be safe!

-- richard

 

[Rusty54]

Rusty accuracy isn't the issue at hand, I have already shot several groups ranging from 1/8moa to 3/8moa, but today I did it at 3016fps with 59.3grns of Retumbo with 140 bergers, had a 7fps es from 15 rounds. Best group was .169" so I can deal with that until I go 6.5x257wby and launch them at 3300fps, 1000yrd laser beam!

You say that you're shooting match accuracy at 1,000 but you're not satisfied with the performance because its not fast enough/ not enough power. I've never heard someone with that kind of complaint.
When I and most sensible people I know work up a load they look for accuracy 1st, last, and allways with a constant eye out for any adverse preasure signs, and really, velocity is, whatever it is as long as its accurate.
You stated that presure isn't a problem because you get long case life as well. So how do your primers look? Are they flattened, impressed into the bolt face, or flowing into the firing pin hole? All those things could be taking place and you may still get long case life. Is bolt lift ever sticky or your case neck needing a lot of trimming for every shot?
You did ask for oppinions and that's my.02. Keep it safe!