explosive bullet for deer

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by biff's reloading, Dec 3, 2008.

  1. biff's reloading

    biff's reloading Well-Known Member

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    i spent the whole day yesterday trying to run my wounded deer passed a gun to bring it down. the small deer was shot in the front shoulder quartering-to, with a 30-06 180gr roundnose bullet. the bullet didnt expand at all, and there was zero blood. it was dragging its one front foot, and i would assume it broke the shoulder. the load was plenty stout with 66gr acc magpro. im pretty disgusted. ive used 95gr B-tips in the 243 and 243ai for many years along with pistol bullets in the muzzleloader. never had a deer go more than a few steps. i have 110% confidence in the 243 as the best deer gun around, and i need some help with this "big gun" :)


    id really like to hear what some of your opinions are for a light, fast bullet that will stay together at hot 30-06 velocity's. at the moment, i have a few 125 b-tips loaded up with 58gr varget. they provide the expansion i want. i have no trouble hitting them where i want, and i dont want to feel the need to shoot for a bone just so my junk bullet will expand and hope to break enuf limbs so the thing cant run to the next county...

    is the 125 b-tip heavy enuf for deer? its 30% heavier than the bullets we typically use on deer, and its going about the same speed, or maybe a bit faster. for a lung shot on a 100-125 lb deer, would there be a better bullet? would one of the barnes bullets work as well or better? i dont have shooting oppurtunities farther than 250 yards around here. i just want instant kills like with the 243

    thanks in advancegun)
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2008
  2. Captn C

    Captn C Well-Known Member

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    I knew a guy who used 125BT in a 300 Wby mag @4000fps...he kept his shots out to 300+ yards, but they would smack the krap out of deer and hogs. I would think they would do fine...in a 270 the 130gr bullet is norm, so I don't see why it wouldn't be great for average hunting range deer (80 to 200+ yards).
     

  3. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    I allways liked the 150 and 165gr blistic tips for the 30/06.

    They seemed to have the right speed and performance. and I
    never had to look for the deer.

    The accubonds in these weights should be great !!!!

    J E CUSTOM
     
  4. edge

    edge Well-Known Member

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    IMO, it is hard for a RN bullet to not expand. I would continue looking for the deer and find out where the shot went.

    I am not trying to be mean, but if it did not open, an 06 would most likely penetrate the length of the animal. Since you did not mention it being "humped up", the bullet most likely did not hit any guts. That means the bullet hit leg, did not open, went through the heart/lung area without doing anything more than give it a limp.

    While stranger things have happened, I bet the bullet did expand but the shot was deflected from your intended shotline or the shot went off course. If you recover the carcass before it gets too stinky you might want to do a quick autopsy.

    edge.

    PS I prefer higher BC bullets but for short range bang flops with an 06 I used 165 grain RN bullets and they never took a step...unlike spitzers.
     
  5. Captn C

    Captn C Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking the same thing...

    I would be willing to bet the bullet hit a bone (shoulder blade) and never entered the chest cavity or hit the from leg, then exited though the brisket.

    The wife hit one like that last year and it was a tracking bear...I finally jumped it...third time in heavy timber/brush and finished it with a flury from a tactical AK that I was hog hunting with.
     
  6. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    Since the Deer was not recovered, how can one make the assumption that the "bullet did not expand" Non expanding bullets will and do kill game very efficiently all the time.

    This Deer heart was destroyed by a well placed flat point non expanding bullet from a hangun at about 1380 FPS muzzle velocity


    [​IMG]


    To often a bullet that did not hit the vitails is the culprit, not bad bullet performance
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2008
  7. edge

    edge Well-Known Member

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    Man that recoil must be brutal :)

    edge.
     
  8. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    A typo thanks, I corrected it in the post.. Sorry for the flub
     
  9. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    I use 168 TTSX, 185 VLDs, and 180 ABs in my 30.06 and have never seen a deer/bear do anything but die on the spot. If I had to pick one bullet, it would be the one I have most experience and kills with and that is the Barnes, TSX, or TTSX.
     
  10. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    a 155 A-max would get my vote for something that would work well on 120 lb deer. i think the A-max comes apart easier than the Balistic tips. i shot a coyote facing right at me the other day. bullet exited at the backbone/hip intersection. although a small yote, it pretty much blew him into 4 pieces. and this was a 178 A-max out of an 06. have shot a few deer with the 6mm/105gr A-max and they leave 2" or more holes in deer.

    if you want a bullet that expands, the A-max gets my vote.
     
  11. biff's reloading

    biff's reloading Well-Known Member

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    but non-expanding bullets also wound much more so than expanding bullets... 5.56 fmj of the military for example


    the assumption was made that the bullet did not expand because the bullet was retrieved shortly after the shot from the stump it went into. it was in there nearly sideways, and not expanded from the front. there was a very small piece of bone where it was hit, which looked very much like a piece from the front/thick area of the scapula. it was walking at 30yards from right to left quartering towards me at about 20 degrees.(mostly right to left, but somewhat towards me) it was about 6 feet lower in elevation than me because i was shooting slightly downhill, and im quite a bit taller than a german shepard sized deer :)

    it put "peel-out" marks on the ground at the shot, so i had my brother stand at the front foot marks as i lined up the shot between my rest and the hole in the tree. it hit him just above the crotch of his pants....perfect height, windage etc. the deer was dragging its left front leg, leading me to believe the bullet hit at least close enuf to the shoulder to disconnect ligaments. the hair on the spot was all brown, so the bullet entered and exited high enuf to miss belly hair, and back enuf to miss brisket hair. the bullet hit exactly where i was aiming. with the timney trigger at 1 lb, shot at 30 yards with no brush in the opening, and knowing i did not flinch since the shot suprised me, the shot was placed where i wanted it to be.
    im not implying that this happens all the time with these awful bullets. obviously there was some bad luck involved that allowed the bullet to pass thru without hitting a single artery, or organ.

    the deer around here usually dont roam far, and when we get a fresh snow, i will always be on the lookout for a 3-legger track. ive told many of the guys who might be hunting in the area to watch for it, and if they can get it, id be glad to tag it... i hope someone does. id really like to see where that bullet went thru, and i dont want to see it suffer any longer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2008
  12. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to hear more about the 5.56mm "wounding more so than expanding bullets" . Explain what is meant by that statement. All bullets wound, thats why the proper term is "wound trauma incapacitation". Are you saying that an expanding bullet doesn't have tha ability to "wound" as well as a FMJ?
     
  13. biff's reloading

    biff's reloading Well-Known Member

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    haha....no...im saying that a bullet that expands, kills better than a bullet that doesnt. or that an expanding bullet "wounds" far better than the fmj... thats why the military uses the bullet that doesnt expand. i wasnt trying to start an argument. the bullet i shot, didnt expand and slipped thru like an icepick. if it had expanded like the 125b-tip's i plan to use from now on, that deer wouldnt have taken another step. the shock of the expansion would have happened right between the shoulder blades. hitting the spine, lungs, arteries, and windpipe at the same time. disagree?:)
     
  14. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    one of the dirty little secrets about terminal bullet performance is the fact that a flat nose non-expanding bullet can leave a larger wound channel than an expanding bullet.