Do you want a exit wound????

[jb1000br]

remember...an exit hole also makes the lungs collapse, becaue the pressure required to breathe is gone.

I had a good shot on a doe at 760 last year, and she took about 1hr to die because the bullet angled back and exited JUST after perfing the diaphragm.

so in here effort to breath, and/or suction from the bullet passing thru, her intestines (unharmed) got lodged in the exit wound and kept her breathing!

they were so tight in the exit hole, I COULD NOT PULL THEM BACK THRU! had to cut and pull from both sides!

had the exit wound stayed open she would have died much sooner /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

JB

 

[Fotis]

[ QUOTE ]
Lerch, i want an exit wound 100% of the time if i can get one.

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[goodgrouper]

I've been killing animals around and past the 1/2 mile mark for many seasons and I can honestly tell you that <font color="red"> I DON'T CARE IF THE BULLET STAYS IN OR EXITS AS LONG AS THAT SHOULDER BLADE IS BROKEN! </font> That being said, with most shoulder fired guns and hunting bullets, you will usually find the bullet breaking both shoulder blades and getting stuck under the skin on the far side, or just breaking one blade and being in the meat tissue on the far side. EIther way, the animal is dead and <font color="blue"> THERE WILL BE NO TRACKING REQUIRED!! </font>

We often times get too caught up in this debate of <font color="green"> geography (in or out)</font> of the bullet when we should really be looking at the <font color="red">biology </font> of the animal. If you break the shoulder or the spine/shoulder junction, the animal will ALWAYS go down like a ton of bricks and stay that way! All quadrapeds on earth must use their front shoulders as their principle means of shifting their weight. If that joint does not work, there is no locomotion, period. It is like a car. You can disconnect the radiator hose, the brake lines, and the gas line but the car can still go a distance before seizing up. But if you break the front axle or the driveline, it isn't going one inch!

Bottom line: pick the right bullet for the distance and put it where it counts most! Shooting an animal with pre-detemined plans of having a blood trail to track sounds like bow-hunting, not rifle hunting.

 

[bucknutz]

you should have polled this one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.yes,after it transfered most of the shock inside."knockdown power" in my words come from aneurysm,better stated on the systolic (pushing) beat of the heart.try to time your shot to impact at that time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif on the diastolic (relaxing) side less pressure,less shock.and bleed out on the trail.
or gg posted together"smash the shoulder blades" noggin' or my favorite "high in the neck" its cleaner that way. "accuracy"

 

[REV]

Sorry to rain on your parade folks but do you really think you magic bullet really opened up "to the size of a softball"? Look at the facts, Most bullets are .308 or smaller when they leave the barrel. Almost all have ridges left on them from the rifling of the barrel. Upon impact, at anything longer than OH MY GOD close will penetrate (deer) about 2-4 inches before expanding. Remember those ridges, well they are cutting little pieces of flesh bone ect from the animal and throwing them perpendicular to the would chanel (read blood shot). While expanding all the way to at most 2X the Dia, the bullet sheads some (demending on the design) of the lead and throws it from the wound chanel. (I am wrong here but I think most bullets are spinning around 100,000 RPM's). If you are leaving a softball hole then your bullet penetrated TOO FAR. It is causing the most colateral damage during this time and you wasted the bullet on meat instead of vitals. The best shots I have witnessed or made was a 222 to the chest right behind the leg. Entrance would bullet size. Exit wound rib far side less than 2X bullet size. Heart, lungs, and liver looked like red apple sauce. This bullet performed flawlessley. While Doing some calling one morning durring deer season (I really did not want to kill a deer) a Wide 8 walked up to the fence 200yds away and jumped in the field I was at. As I had a 223 with varmit bullets I figured I had 2 choices, one he got a pass (**** NO), two I had to take his head off right at the base of the skull. As he turned to look away from me the bullet struck the back of his neck 2 inches below his skull. There was a CRACK report that came back to be. The bullet exploded on impact and went all of 3 inches in but his spine was missing for 3 inches and he was dead. It all comes down to 1 what you have at the time, 2 what kind of shot you are offered, and 3 knowing what you need. Someone chasing bear in the woods needs to knock em down, Me in West Texas can walk across the field and follow a 300 yd blood trail and see the deer on the other side. I was just drawn for an Elk tag in CO and will be taking Partitions for my 300 RUM. The Swifts shoot better but they dont offer me the penetration I desire for my first elk. If I have a TX heart shot and thats as good as its going to get then I know the Bullet can do its job IF I put it in the right place. the swift would not reach the vitals. I actually prefer SMALL exit wounds overall.

 

[WoodsWalker]

Put an Accubond thru the shoulders then break out the knife.

 

[lerch]

I guess I may have worded some of my statment wrong in the beginning because goodgrouper hit the nail right on the head. While i still pose my question just so I can see what everyone here prefers, this is exactly what I look for in a shot. A high shoulder shot that stikes bone upon enetering transfers much of its kinetic enrgy into the core of the animal hopefully shocking into a somewhat paralyzed state. This is what we see in the BEst of the West video's where it looks like the elk got hit by a truck he falls down so hard. What I was getting at by talking about a bullet not exiting was a bullet that was striking in the vital area. I nmy own shooting experince I have shot two deer with heavy bonded bullets thinking that these high preformance bullets would just slaughter the animal, only to have the hardest blood trailing experinces of my life. After that I have shot most of my deer with light jacketed ballistic tips and sof points and the majority of these deer have dropped on contact. My point about a bullet stopping inside an animal is this and I will pose it as a question. A bullet traveling at a fairly fast rate of speed hits a animal and penetrates to roughly the middle of the animal and then stops after flattening out a decent amount, wouldn't this bullet then transfer all of its forward momentum into the animal creating a tremendous concussive force?? And if this is true and the bullet was representative of the animal it was shot into, not a 22 cal into a moose, then wouldn't the shock the bullet causes most likely cause the animal to collapse from the impact??? I am not trying to **** anyone off this is just something that made sense in my mind, which might be a scary thing.

Thanks
Steve

 

[goodgrouper]

I guess if you're going to go for a "radiator hose" shot into the so called vital area, then logic dictates the more damage the better. I wouldn't really want the hillside behind the animal to get some of the energy that was left over after the bullet went through the animal. I would want all the energy possible to open the bullet to maximum size to help destroy as much tissue as possible. That is what is so great about the shoulder shot. Every joule of kinetic energy is transferred to the bone with the ultimate destroying power. That is what we expect when hunting with bullets. We expect a blood trail with an arrow because these two projectiles kill in VERY different ways.

 

[Guest]

"A high shoulder shot that stikes bone upon enetering transfers much of its kinetic enrgy into the core of the animal hopefully shocking into a somewhat paralyzed state."
That is exactly how it works in my experence.
Comments like "Just a matter of time before you realize that you've gotta have a pass through" and "of course I want an exit, and so should everybody else" are from people who think they know what everyone else needs to do. If you want a pass through shot and like following a blood trail thats fine with me. I like them to drop and a broken shoulder and jelly lungs and heart will do that.

 

[lerch]

When I talked about a bullet going into the core I guess i should specify that with this I am actually talking about a center shoulder to high shoulder shot. I am glad to here people thinking along the same lines as I am. I just makes a lot of sense to me that if a bullet crashes into the high shoulder bone with a lot of force not only is the bullet gioing to either expand or break apart and cause some serious damage but I would figure that the concussive force it would produce in this close proximity of the spinal cord would cause the animal to just collapse from shock while not actually paralyzing the animal, kind of like if you fall on your tail bone and then you feel like you can't walk for while. My question now is that obviously a ballistic tip or something like it is perfect for whitetails and antelope but what would you use for moose or elk if you wanted the same effect. I will probably be using a wildcat bullet anyway but Iwould still like to hear your opinions.

Thanks
Steve

 

[goodgrouper]

[ QUOTE ]
I just makes a lot of sense to me that if a bullet crashes into the high shoulder bone with a lot of force not only is the bullet gioing to either expand or break apart and cause some serious damage but I would figure that the concussive force it would produce in this close proximity of the spinal cord would cause the animal to just collapse from shock while not actually paralyzing the animal, kind of like if you fall on your tail bone and then you feel like you can't walk for while.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. That is what I want. Even if you have to finally put it out once you get to the critter, at least you can because it WILL BE WERE IT WAS WHEN IT WAS SHOT! It will not go off into the brush with a hole in it.


[ QUOTE ]
what would you use for moose or elk if you wanted the same effect. I will probably be using a wildcat bullet anyway but Iwould still like to hear your opinions.


[/ QUOTE ]

A bonded, polymer tipped bullet of some kind for close AND long range shots. More fragile bullets (like match bullets) do fine at long range but if you think you might have a close shot, the bonded bullets work better there in my opinion. In other words, the Accubonds bullets are more versatile than the MK's but they will both do fine at long range.

 

[Slipshot]

You guys are sure messing up alot of meat with your shoulder shots. Here in Texas our deer have pretty small bodies and I want to keep as much meat as possible. I have shot many deer from standing still to running full out and tend to put the shot behind the shoulder. I have seen them lay right down to run a couple hundred yards. Between my dad and I we have only lost 1 deer in 30 years. I always get a pass through shot with a good exit wound and normaly a blood trail isnt a problem.
There is more to hunting then shooting. The best lesson you can teach a new hunter is the art of tracking. Some were some time for some reason you will miss your "perfect" shot and need to track down that wounded prize animal.
While you guys probably think like gun hunters go watch a arrow fly through a deer and see if you get all that kenetic energy. They just cut the vitals and let the animal bleed out.
This is one of those questions that has no one answer. But its sure fun to debate!!!!!!

 

[davewilson]

the debate between bullets that stay together and come apart can be decided by the size of the animal.any bullet maker will tell you that above 300 lbs you need a stay together type bullet.i realize hunting at long range is a different thing,but as far as more energy being expended on the animal when the bullet doesn't exit,it's been proven wrong.in fact bullets that mushroom don't necessarily make a larger wound channel.case in point,check out what an animal does when it gets hit by a non mushrooming 40 gr SOLID shot out of a 220 swift.the bullet just zips right through the animal.using the logic of the "stay inside the animal crowd",the animal should just walk away because hardly any energy should have been expended.quite the opposite is true.i've talked to people that have shot hundreds of animal up to the 300 lb size with this combo, and some much larger, and the results are almost always the same.when the bullet hits almost ANY part of the front half,the animal is instantly on the ground.what would be nice is if you could ask 100 outfitters this question and see what they say.i'll bet 95% would want an exit hole.

 

[Guest]

Wow! Why do they make bullets that expand? Guess we should all be using solids.