Am I having a pressure problem.

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

Huh?

was very busy that day too write out a super detailed reply



picking pow"d"er with the possibility of full case capacity (( typo ))

size brass to feel a crush fit when closing bolt , remove the ejector plunger from your bolt. then , you can soot the front and the back to see how much contact you're getting , without the feel of the the plunger spring

((( this cartridge will show false pressure signs , if given any headspace, i was able to alleviate my pressure signs like the OP and gain 1.5 grains of powder , just by sizing to crush fit when closing bolt

i think if you bump the normal .002 to .004 off you'll see pressure signs early as well )))

i think the OP over sized those brass slightly , the plunger holds the brass forward into the shoulder datum cone , gives bolt face gap , enough to slam back into the bolt , which shows more pressure signs than if held against the bolt face tightly , with same powder load

one of the bad things about this , if this diagnosis fixes this problem , is that if you ever over size by accident you can be right where you left off ,

for example , factory ammo of ultramag cases will almost always show some case head , extractor plunger transfer .... because they have to over size ( but still be in saami tolerances )

 

[Harry Knutz]

was very busy that day too write out a super detailed reply



picking pow"d"er with the possibility of full case capacity (( typo ))

size brass to feel a crush fit when closing bolt , remove the ejector plunger from your bolt. then , you can soot the front and the back to see how much contact you're getting , without the feel of the the plunger spring

((( this cartridge will show false pressure signs , if given any headspace, i was able to alleviate my pressure signs like the OP and gain 1.5 grains of powder , just by sizing to crush fit when closing bolt

i think if you bump the normal .002 to .004 off you'll see pressure signs early as well )))

i think the OP over sized those brass slightly , the plunger holds the brass forward into the shoulder datum cone , gives bolt face gap , enough to slam back into the bolt , which shows more pressure signs than if held against the bolt face tightly , with same powder load

one of the bad things about this , if this diagnosis fixes this problem , is that if you ever over size by accident you can be right where you left off ,

for example , factory ammo of ultramag cases will almost always show some case head , extractor plunger transfer .... because they have to over size ( but still be in saami tolerances )

Ok that sounds reasonable, But he is talking about fire-forming before he can size them as he used un-fireformed virgin brass if I read his first post correctly. He is using full power loads to fire-form is what I gathered, I also believe he created a false shoulder. I always use a medium load if I'm going to do it that way, Which I seldom do, I normally use the cow method, Mostly because a lot of my calibers will be shot out at 800 rounds or so.

Edit: He is using full power 338 Rum loads.

 

[WildBillG]

Dusty Noggin this Sako action and bolt have no plunger ejector. I did not size the brass only opened neck from .308 to .338 in a neck size die.
Harry Knutz I fired a few rounds last night with the bullets seated into the lands. How ever I maybe should seat them out a little more for a little more pressure on the bolt face.. I am using the Hornady max load which is about the same as Nosler's starting load.
I think maybe my problem is that the ADG brass is a tad under sized and the Redding expander ball pushed the shoulder back some. As all fired brass matched book specs perfectly and primer pockets are still tight. Could this be what is happening.

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

Go back to grains and start up by half grains..also, did you bump the weight on the scale ?? Happens easily..

 

[Harry Knutz]

Dusty Noggin this Sako action and bolt have no plunger ejector. I did not size the brass only opened neck from .308 to .338 in a neck size die.
Harry Knutz I fired a few rounds last night with the bullets seated into the lands. How ever I maybe should seat them out a little more for a little more pressure on the bolt face.. I am using the Hornady max load which is about the same as Nosler's starting load.
I think maybe my problem is that the ADG brass is a tad under sized and the Redding expander ball pushed the shoulder back some. As all fired brass matched book specs perfectly and primer pockets are still tight. Could this be what is happening.

I don't see how the expander ball could push the shoulder back? The expander ball expands the inside of the neck. If you are not using the "COW" Method, Then the other methods are to "Create a False Shoulder" Or "Jam into the Lands" It doesn't really matter as long as you are pushing the head of the brass against the bolt face. If not then the brass isn't sized properly when it fire-forms and you may get case head separations. It sounds like you have used all of the methods other than the "COW". The Edge is a "Wildcat" But it's not a true "Ackley" The Ackley system is made to partially headspace on the datum with a factory round and fire-form without any of these methods. The easiest way for those that don't do this all of the time is to "Jam".

I don't have any experience with "ADG" brass, I do have a 300 RUM, But when I got it at the time all I could find was Remington and Nosler brass. I bought the rifle to build an Edge, But I found I like the 300 Rum pretty well.

If I am understanding you correctly, You used 338 Rum loads to fire-form correct? If that's true, I beleive the 338 Rum case has quite a bit less capacity than the 300 rum case you are using to fire-form into 338 Edge, As I stated earlier in the thread, Under-filling the large cases can cause huge pressure spikes, This may have been what happened. Was there good case fill or was the powder at the case shoulder junction when you loaded them? If you would like, I can ask my old boss who I used to build rifles for what his edge loads are for fire-forming, He's a Big Edge guy. I used to do a lot of barrel work for him.

 

[Harry Knutz]

My brand new latest edition Hornady book shows a max load of 87.9 gr of IMR 7828 for a 225 gr Bullet, I don't have the Nosler book, You are about 4 to 5 grains over Hornadys max published load. I would post a pic of the page, But I'm not sure if it's a copyright infringement or not.

Edit to add: this max load of 87.9 is loads for 225 gr bullets in 338 Ultra Magnum.

 

[Harry Knutz]

Hornady's Max published load for 300 rum with a 225 bullet is 84.0 gr of IMR 7828. I think you have a simple problem of too hot of a load.

 

[WildBillG]

I believe that the Redding expander ball is to blunt. One of the brass had the neck push down a bit I was using graphite to lube the necks.
My powder charge was a max load according to Speer and 1 grn under for Nosler. The loads are ok now that I am jamming the bullets into the lands as Dusty Noggin recomended.. I did lower them to the Hornady max load.

 

[Weaver93]

 

[Harry Knutz]

View attachment 392795

Ok I thought you were using 338 Ultra loads.

 

[Weaver93]

Ok I thought you were using 338 Ultra loads.

Harry, I just thought you were looking for the load data for .300 RUM

Here is the .338 RUM

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

I believe that the Redding expander ball is to blunt. One of the brass had the neck push down a bit I was using graphite to lube the necks.
My powder charge was a max load according to Speer and 1 grn under for Nosler. The loads are ok now that I am jamming the bullets into the lands as Dusty Noggin recomended.. I did lower them to the Hornady max load.

sorry for any confusion , i didnt recommend jamming the bullet into the lands , i suggested -o.oo1 case base to shoulder datum

jamming the bullet would just add to your pressures

 

[WildBillG]

I am really believeing there is not a pressure problem. The problem seems to be that this ADG brass is a tad short at the datum line or when I sized up the necks the datam line moved back. What ever it is the bullets being seated to jam seems to aliviate it..

 

[MallardAddict]

In my 338 Edge I have always used the false shoulder method for virgin brass same as i do my ackleys.

In my edge I first size my case necks up to .358 and then only only size enough of the neck down to .338 to get the bolt to close with just slight resistance. The rest of the expanded neck portion helps hold the case firmly against the bolt while fireforming.

I use fairly stiff 338 Rum loads but not max.

Also your ADG brass is almost guaranteed to be thicker then factory Remington brass so it has less capacity and will hit pressure sooner.