Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by DanielLudwig, Oct 27, 2013.
Opinions?? Looking @ 308 in both.
I recently purchased a special run 18" Savage tactical to run as a suppressed hunting rifle. I compared it side by side with the Remington and since the Savage was nearly $100 less, it was a no brainer. The Savage has a detachable mag, 5r buttoned rifling, and a better reputation for accuracy. The Savage shoots great. I broke it in right with my first big game suppressed hunting kill by leveling a bear at 230 yards last Spring with a 168 Etip loaded over RL15.
A better reputation for accuracy? Obviously you don't know that the Model 700 has been around since 1967...Pretty sure the model 10 is nowhere near that old.
I would go with the 700 SPS Tactical 20". They are usually 1:10 twist to handle anythjng from 168-230gr pills, alot of the newer ones are 5R button rifled. The SPS Tactical models have a great reputation for accuracy.
Obviously huh? I don't disagree with you about Rem 700s in general for accuracy, but the SPS tactical in particular is well documented to need fairly significant modification to shoot MOA and under, even with reloads. Most of the degraded accuracy is attributed to the flimsy Hogue stock especially when fired from a bipod.
In my case, I figure the Savage saved me at least $300, simply because it was $100 less to start with, has a better factory trigger than the X Mark, and it performs straight out of the box which eliminates the need to deal with replacing the Hogue stock with something more suitable for consistent accuracy.
I will agree about the crappy Hogue stock...And yes, to some that might be a deal-breaker, but as I don't see it as such, because I see that stock as ebay or classifieds material, before the gun ever gets shot. LOL
The X-Mark triggers suck, too. For $50 you can buy an older style trigger and with the help of a YouTube video, a hammer, and a punch, you should be able to swap it out yourself in a matter of 15-20 mins.
My appologies as coming off as a little biased, I do note the differences, however, for the cheaper 700's I either see them as just an action and bottom metal to build off of, or a barreled-action with bottom metal to do a semi-custom build.
I have shot a few SPS Tac's that still had the Hogue stock and they were shooting ¾ MOA and under. Honestly, for a $400 rifle, I was pretty impressed.
I went to Mark's Outdoors up in Birmingham, when they had them on sale for $399, and I was gonna buy 2 of them (wish I had atleast bought one now), but instead walked out with a new 700 5R MilSpec 24" .308 10th Anniversary edition. I'm glad I bought the 5R over the SPS Tac, but now I wish I had bought both, so I would have had a cheap action to build a bolt-action 6.5 Grendel, or 6.5 SS (Sherman Short).
I love the Rems as a project rifle, but my intention was to get a compact rifle to run suppressed that would shoot straight out of the box instead of dumping $50-$250 on top of the price of the rifle. The Savage didn't need the extra love. I used the extra dollars for a base, rings, and the last box of Lapua brass that I could find. With the Rem I knew I would replace the stock and the trigger immediately and in my area the SPS Tacs aren't $399, they're at least $600. I may eventually add a higher cap mag to my Savage since I can. Adding DM to an SPS Tac turns into even more money spent.
I'm not a Savage lover, but the Savage was the better rifle in this instance.
Yeah they run $499-599 around here on average, but you can usually catch them on sale for $399-499. Next time I do, I'm snatching one up to use for a 6.5 Grendel or 6.5 SS build, since I ready have a really nice .308 that's stacking anything I feed it.
BTW Daniel, my Savage is the model 10P-SR Like this one.
I have the SPS tac and I love it. Granted it has a b&c medalist stock on it. I didn't find accuracy to be horrible with the hogue. With 168 matchking handloads it put 5 into a bug hole yesterday. My brother in law has the aac-sd version with the faster twist and threaded barrel. It wears the same stock. He has a timney trigger. And we both have Viper PSt's. His shoots the same as mine. Not sure about the rumors on horrible accuracy. I'm also a Savage fan. I have a few in the safe including a new Long Range hunter that I'm not having much luck finding a load for yet.
A guy I work with bought a Model 700 Tactical .308 with a 20" barrel, guessing its the one y'all are talking about. Think he paid 499. It has a rubber coated synthetic stock. I mounted his Zeiss scope and went to the range with factory loaded 168 match ammo. Took 3 shots to get it where I wanted on the paper and the next 3 out of the rifle went into .280". Completely factory trigger, stock, and a Zeiss scope with fairly heavy crosshairs. I was extremely impressed.
have buddy who occasionally drops in here, so he might respond.
He bought that Remington 700 in .308, and it shot 1.25" groups with some hand loads (2" with Federal Supremes). For what he wanted it for it was plenty adequate. (200 yard rifle). So he goes back home and drags out this beat up 788 in .308 with a very short barrel. The stock was factory and looked like somebody shot it with bird shot! The barrel had been recrowned, and he did do some minor clean up on the trigger years ago. Otherwise the gun was out of the box stock. He shoots a steady stream of .75" five shot groups at 100 yards! But what sent him into a rage was that he had less than $225 in the entire rifle (scope mounts and all). Now the 700 had a Leupold 3x-9x scope and their bases and rings. The 788 had Weaver bases and rings with a Tasco scope (3x-9x) that he picked up at a flea market for thirty dollars.
He knew that I had reworked the forend of my Remington stock, and two or three Savage stocks, and wanted to know if I could do his Remington. I told him that it was made completely differently than my Remington, and I doubted anything would fix that thing. The trigger was fair at best, and told him to just buy a Rifle Basix. Then do a recrown (Remington's crowning job was beyond suspect) job. For a factory style stock, I'd probably just hunt up a laminate or a VS stock to start with, and then rework it over the winter months. Have no ide what the bore felt like as he did all the cleaning with Pro Shot stuff.
On the other side of the coin, my brother inlaw bought a Savage F116 something (too many letters and numbers to remember). He's left handed, and wanted a 30-06. Plus he's a little recoil shy. The barrel was about 20" before the factory adjustable brake. He also installed a Leupold Var II 3x-9x scope with Burris rings and bases. The stock sucks on a good day, and the old style trigger was what we'd like to forget. He brings two boxes of Federal Supreme factory loads and starts breaking in the barrel. His first groups was about 1.25" cleaning between shots! Later and well into the second box he's shooting 3/4" groups with an occasional flyer. We go home, and take the barreled action out of the stock. The problem was obvious as the forend was moving all over the place. I go over to one of the many waste baskets of arrows (he's a champion bow shooter), and grab a couple arrows. Epoxy them into the forend to help stiffen things up ( seems like we used 2016's or maybe 1816's as it's been awhile). The next day we did some minor sanding and relieving in the forend, and I told him the recoil lug area needed some work. He takes the rifle out, and starts shooting 3/4" groups but we got rid of most all the flyers. The first set of hand loads shot 5/8th's inch groups with Hornaday 165 grain bullets over about 55 grains of 4350 powder. I loaded these with Forster dies. He later bought a Rifle Basix trigger, and rebedded the recoil lug, and claims to be shooting a tad over a half inch with his own hand loads (I don't have any idea what they are).
Rickdavis has it figured out. I have SPS tac in a .308. I swapped the Hogue stock for a Bell & Carlson Tactical Medalist Style 3 w/ "Hook" and shoot Hornady 168gr AMAX out of that, and it shoots lights out all day.
Im not a huge fan of the Accutrigger, not saying the Xmark is a victory, I just dont like that bladed piece. I remember when I was comparing the two that the AccuStock material were also injection molded but a stiffer material that wouldn't push into the barrel when you were shooting off a bi-pod/sand bags. Perhaps someone on here can tell me if the AccuStocks have any sort of bedding block in it? Seems to me that if either way you are going to want to swap the stock out, why not go with the Remington if they sell for cheaper anyways? $250 upgrade on the stock (which seems like the biggest complaint on accuracy) is a no brainier. You'er either buying a SPS tac and upgrading the stock for around the same price as a Mod 10, giving you a better set up, or you're keeping the stock of your Mod 10, and questioning if you are getting the best your rifle has to offer...or upgrading that and finding yourself a grand into the project.
My savage LRH has the accustock and it has the bedding block. Supposed to have aluminum all the way up the fore end I believe. It's pretty stiff
Thanks for the clarification Rick. I found this on Savage's site that explains a little more about the system. Savage Arms
I remember now, that at the time, the reason I went with the bedding block was due to the varying opinions on whether or not the AccuStock rail system works. That will have to be answered by someone who has experience with the rifle/stock. You'll also have to think about the end use of the gun. I friggen love the B&C stock I bought. But I bought it as a bench gun / coyote crusher. The wide forend is great for bench shooting, but not a great piece of equipment to carry around because it is wider and a little heavier.