.300 WSM vs. 7mm WSM

[davewilson]

71, i'm not siding with anyone on the 7 vs. 30 thing, just use whichever you like. but as far as the 180 bergers for big game, you betcha. it's one heck of a game killing machine!

 

[arthurj]

SamSpade,
Saying BC is BS is ridiculous when you're talking about long range shooting. Yes that 30 BR might have been accurate but that round is designed for 100-200 yard bench shooting, NOT killing deer at 1000 yards. Sometimes it might be easier to make a bullet shoot that has a big round nose on it, but if you can get a bullet with a higher BC to shoot it will always perform better at long range.

 

[SamSpade]

SamSpade,
but if you can get a bullet with a higher BC to shoot it will always perform better at long range.

Why did you put that "if" in there? You should define "perform", more accurate? more retained energy? handle the wind better? or are you just repeating what you have been led to believe?

 

[rocky_lange]

7MM WSM is already DEAD..forget it.
She's ( 7mmWSM ) in the same league of 30TC, 300-338 RCM....

Hmmm, these cartridges are DOA???
30 TC - a short action, small bolt face cartridge capable of 30-06 performance? I would say alive and well, especially in AR10s.
RCM - Short action magnums capable of 24-26 inch barrel velocities from a 20" barrel? Hmmm, me thinks would make a great light weight rifle cartridge (short action/short barrel = much less weight). And if you can chamber AR10 in 300RSAUM, why not 300RCM and take advantage of the 20" barrel?

Time will only tell, but I will probably own one of these chamberings.

 

[eclipse71]

i forgot

I forgot to put the RSAUM in this package....
AR-10 and these family in my place are: Rectricted
Mean: not for hunting purpose, Just at the shooting club.

WSM ( 270-300 )are so popular here ( Canada )
They eclipse anything else.

 

[arthurj]

Yes I did write "if." To define perform: A bullet with a higher BC will retain more velocity, thus more energy, and buck the wind better at long range. I hope youre not about to try and convince me that this is not the truth. But... let me rephrase this, if bullet A with a BC of .4 shoots .5" at 300 yards, and bullet B with BC of .7 shoots 4" at 300 yards, yes I will take the lower BC any day. If bullet A shoots .5" at 300 yards, and bullet B shoots .75" or even 1" at 300 yards, I would take bullet B any day. I'm not trying to start anything, but the way your post was worded it sounded like you said BC makes no difference in bullet performance.

 

[James Jones]

The 30 cal versus the 7mm is always a big debate and both sides always have some sort of lop sided info.

Fact , two rilfes chambered in case of same case capacity but one has a 7mm bore and the other has a 308 bore , the 308 will shoot faster in every case with bullets of the SAME WEIGHT , its simple physics the 30 cal has a better bore to powder ratio.

Fact , bullets of the same weight and bullet desgine , one in 7mm one in 30 cal the 7mm will always have the higher BC due to the longer bullet with higher SD.
Now which one shoots flatter? the faster bullet or the higher BC? , that question depends on what range your talking about. Out to 400 maybe 500yds the faster bullet will generaly win because its going faster and the differance in BC realy hasen't become evident yet but past 500yds the fatter bullet with lower BC is going to start to slow down faster and as this happens the wide plays a bigger effect ands does the drop so the 7mm will take over in the flatter shooting department as this transition takes place the 7mm bullet is going faster and having the same weight will retain more energy.
So which one shoots flatter the 300 win mag shooting a 150gr Balistic tip at 3400fps or the 7mm rem mag shooting a 160gr Accubond at 3000fps? at 400yds the 300 but at 800yds the 7mm is kicking its butt and at 1000yds the 30 cal 150gr is mearly a varmint round where the 160gr 7mm bullet will have plenty of energy to kill deer. So which one shoots flatter?

As for the debate on the 7mmWSM versus the 300WSM , well that boils back down to the same factors we just discussed. But compairing the 300 Win mag to the 300WSM is not even fair as the 300 Win mag hold alot more powder and the 300 Win mag will out run the WSM every time if the barrel is at least 24" ,the same goes for the 7mmWSM versus the 7mm Rem mag. Yes the WSM case is more efficient than the older bigger mags but the power differance boils down to "over bore capacity" more than effeciency ,thats why their is only a small increse in velocity compaired to powder increase moving from 30-06 to 30-378 , the 30-378 is using 100% more powder yet only has a velocity increase of less than 1000 fps that around the 30% mark?

So this new rifle is to be used for Elk and ground hogs (intersting combo) , at what ranges are this critters to be shot at? both the 300WSM and the 7mm will kill elk out to 500 maybe 600yds effeciently with good bullets. What kind of paramiters do you have for this weapon , as in weight , length , range for shooting , do you reload? , how many rounds are you expencted to shoot a year?

 

[linksmechanic]

Eclipse: Use your noodle a little more. Try doing a little research before posting. There's a reason Berger bullets now come in an orange box: There excellent for hunting! This isn't some new highlight. It's been 3 major magazines as well as all over the internet. I like .30 calibers(I own 3). The argument is whether the 7 is flatter than the 300. Take exbal and enter the data. This isn't B.S. as a huge percentage of this forum use exbal for hunting and it's spot on.

 

[eclipse71]

Stupid brain !!!

Eclipse: Use your noodle a little more. Try doing a little research before posting. .

As you said: Use youre little noodle + Youre EYES..
And take a look at the right corner of youre screen.
And you will see`: CANADA
Berger are rare as pope ****.
And, noodle ! were talking about factory ammunition and shooting at normal hunting range....
Is there a lot of this kind of creature here ???

 

[Wild_Bill]

7mm wins

As you said: Use youre little noodle + Youre EYES..
And take a look at the right corner of youre screen.
And you will see`: CANADA
Berger Dont EXIST here.
And, noodle ! were talking about factory ammunition and shooting at normal hunting range....
Is there a lot of this kind of creature here ???

Ok enough with the names.

If you compare apples with apples the 7mm beats the 30nevery time. but if you try to use diferent projectiles you can make any argument as you can take a bad bc bullet in a calibre and compare it to a streamline bullet in another calibre and all of a sudden a 243 beats a 300mag.

Get the Berger cd a guy shoots a deer around 100yards with a 300 ultramag and a berger vld it hammers it at over 3200fps impact velocity. also you can get bergers in Canada or even better get some uld bullets from Wildcat.

Cheers Bill
Australia

 

[James Jones]

Ok boys lets grow up a little bit and tone down the names and swearing as well as other folks that this type language offends.

The guy that origionated this post hasen't even replied back since the first page at what time he responded that he wuld be using a 300 so arguing this point to convience they fella is redundent.

If you talking about factory loaded ammo then it need to be an unbiased test ,no shopping around for hotter loads no short barrels to long barrels and so on , just an apples to apples compairison. Here is some info from Federals web site compairing the 7WSM to the 300WSM with both lighter weight deer bullets and heavier big game bullets in the same make

7mmWSM , 24" test barrel
140gr Nosler Balistic tip launched at 3310fps
15.2" wind drift at 500yds in 10mph breeze
30.6" drop at 500yds with a 200yd zero
1705 ftlbs energy at 500yds

160gr Nosler Accubond launched at 3120fps
14.7" wind drift at 500yds in 10mph breeze
33.8" drop at 500yds with a 200yd zero
1826ftlbs energy at 500yds

300 WSM , 24" test barrel
150gr Nosler Ballistic tip launched at 3200fps
18" wind drift at 500yds in 10mph breeze
34.5" drop at 500yds with a 200yd zero
1558ftlbs energy at 500yds

180gr Nosler Accubond launched at 2960fps
16.8" wind drift at 500yds in 10mph breeze
38.7" drop at 500yds with a 200yd zero
1763ftlbs energy at 500yds.

So everybody can see that the 7mmWSM shoots flatter , drifts less in the wind and even hits harder at long rantge than any compairable loads out of the 300WSM , these are two case of same shape and very very close to same case capacity so this shows that even at 500yds the BC is a big factor and very evident , I can assure you that the gap only grows as the range increases and all this with less recoil? inda makes you wnder whay anybody would choose the 300WSM to begin with.

I'm not choosing sides as I don't own either and the only reason I would would to build a light weight gun on a short action , I don't believe that the belt on the old mags has any differancr in the accuracy , and if I were going to build a gun on either the 7mm Rem mag or 300 win mag I would choose the 300 win mag as I feel its a little bit more versitile with the brad range of bullets and Lapua offers bras for it.

 

[eclipse71]

wow , brillant

Nice try,
You compare the 2 caliber
Using Federal Factory Ammo.
You certainly notice Winchester have not the same load at all
Product Comparison

Using the Winchester load..Data are completely different.
7mmWSM , 24" test barrel
160gr Nosler Accubond launched at 3050fps
16.6" wind drift at 500yds in 10mph breeze
-36.55" drop at 500yds with a 200yd zero
1646 ftlbs energy at 500yds

300 WSM , 24" test barrel
180gr Nosler Accubond launched at 3010fps
15.7" wind drift at 500yds in 10mph breeze
36.75" drop at 500yds with a 200yd zero
1887 ftlbs energy at 500yds.

 

[halfbakedi420]

absolutly awsome

thx for the "deep" info i was lookin for..ben lookin for a few hours for that tyvm

The 30 cal versus the 7mm is always a big debate and both sides always have some sort of lop sided info.

Fact , two rilfes chambered in case of same case capacity but one has a 7mm bore and the other has a 308 bore , the 308 will shoot faster in every case with bullets of the SAME WEIGHT , its simple physics the 30 cal has a better bore to powder ratio.

Fact , bullets of the same weight and bullet desgine , one in 7mm one in 30 cal the 7mm will always have the higher BC due to the longer bullet with higher SD.
Now which one shoots flatter? the faster bullet or the higher BC? , that question depends on what range your talking about. Out to 400 maybe 500yds the faster bullet will generaly win because its going faster and the differance in BC realy hasen't become evident yet but past 500yds the fatter bullet with lower BC is going to start to slow down faster and as this happens the wide plays a bigger effect ands does the drop so the 7mm will take over in the flatter shooting department as this transition takes place the 7mm bullet is going faster and having the same weight will retain more energy.
So which one shoots flatter the 300 win mag shooting a 150gr Balistic tip at 3400fps or the 7mm rem mag shooting a 160gr Accubond at 3000fps? at 400yds the 300 but at 800yds the 7mm is kicking its butt and at 1000yds the 30 cal 150gr is mearly a varmint round where the 160gr 7mm bullet will have plenty of energy to kill deer. So which one shoots flatter?

As for the debate on the 7mmWSM versus the 300WSM , well that boils back down to the same factors we just discussed. But compairing the 300 Win mag to the 300WSM is not even fair as the 300 Win mag hold alot more powder and the 300 Win mag will out run the WSM every time if the barrel is at least 24" ,the same goes for the 7mmWSM versus the 7mm Rem mag. Yes the WSM case is more efficient than the older bigger mags but the power differance boils down to "over bore capacity" more than effeciency ,thats why their is only a small increse in velocity compaired to powder increase moving from 30-06 to 30-378 , the 30-378 is using 100% more powder yet only has a velocity increase of less than 1000 fps that around the 30% mark?

So this new rifle is to be used for Elk and ground hogs (intersting combo) , at what ranges are this critters to be shot at? both the 300WSM and the 7mm will kill elk out to 500 maybe 600yds effeciently with good bullets. What kind of paramiters do you have for this weapon , as in weight , length , range for shooting , do you reload? , how many rounds are you expencted to shoot a year?

 

[J Mac]

Thanks for the infomation and the entertainment.