I guess our terms are what makes some of us seem to disagree. If max book load was 77 and minimum was say, 73, I would generally consider 75.4 beyond a starting point but there is no reason it should be unsafe if all is right with the gun. I would have called it warm, as in "getting toward hot but not yet there". I have not loaded E-tips but I figured around 76-76.5 would be the max considering it is not a lead core bullet. Generally "pretty loose" chambers will have a higher maximum load that the tighter end of the saami spectrum. My understanding is that this is caused by case expansion at the beginning of the burn giving a very slightly larger case volume for the remaining powder to burn. Like fire forming am Ackley case. Tighter chambers (yet within Saami specs) can at times achieve the same or greater velocity and sometimes more pressure with less powder than in one that is toward the loose end. My point with the case length was that with a maximum of 2.620 the chamber will likely be cut to allow SOME stretching, but how much depends on the reamer used. So if your chamber is 2.621 (just as example, I do not know the exact specs on cutting a saami spec 300 win mag chamber) and the case is stretching .003 which doesn't seem unreasonable to me if using a near maximum load and if your brass started at 2.620 then it would push pressures higher to some degree, push brass up to the mouth of the chamber compacting it and causing you to get a sticky bolt lift. This was my problem when working up loads for my 111 LRH. Max OAL for this case is 2.170 and that appears to be the exact length of my chamber as I loaded some know HOT loads without trimming and it pushed the brass up around the chamber mouth which I had a perfect indention and outline of on the case when I removed it. Yet when trimmed to 2.160 I can get two firings between trimming and only normal maximum load pressure signs. The load may not be anywhere near maximum with trimmed cases but with max length cases you could very easily get what seemed to be pressure problems. So you have two choices when the case will chamber, trimm the case or reduce your load to the point that it does not stretch at all. Trimming seems more reasonable to me. And I am sure to anyone else here as well.
300 WIn Mag confusion
- Thread starter Carman
- Start date
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I guess our terms are what makes some of us seem to disagree. If max book load was 77 and minimum was say, 73, I would generally consider 75.4 beyond a starting point but there is no reason it should be unsafe if all is right with the gun. I would have called it warm, as in "getting toward hot but not yet there". I have not loaded E-tips but I figured around 76-76.5 would be the max considering it is not a lead core bullet. Generally "pretty loose" chambers will have a higher maximum load that the tighter end of the saami spectrum. My understanding is that this is caused by case expansion at the beginning of the burn giving a very slightly larger case volume for the remaining powder to burn. Like fire forming am Ackley case. Tighter chambers (yet within Saami specs) can at times achieve the same or greater velocity and sometimes more pressure with less powder than in one that is toward the loose end. My point with the case length was that with a maximum of 2.620 the chamber will likely be cut to allow SOME stretching, but how much depends on the reamer used. So if your chamber is 2.621 (just as example, I do not know the exact specs on cutting a saami spec 300 win mag chamber) and the case is stretching .003 which doesn't seem unreasonable to me if using a near maximum load and if your brass started at 2.620 then it would push pressures higher to some degree, push brass up to the mouth of the chamber compacting it and causing you to get a sticky bolt lift. This was my problem when working up loads for my 111 LRH. Max OAL for this case is 2.170 and that appears to be the exact length of my chamber as I loaded some know HOT loads without trimming and it pushed the brass up around the chamber mouth which I had a perfect indention and outline of on the case when I removed it. Yet when trimmed to 2.160 I can get two firings between trimming and only normal maximum load pressure signs. The load may not be anywhere near maximum with trimmed cases but with max length cases you could very easily get what seemed to be pressure problems. So you have two choices when the case will chamber, trimm the case or reduce your load to the point that it does not stretch at all. Trimming seems more reasonable to me. And I am sure to anyone else here as well.
Not planning on going any higher than I already am. Just going to trim the cases to 2.61, load it like I have been, and try one. If it works, I am sticking with it as it is very accurate. If any problems, I will back off .2 grains at a time til I find a place where there is no problem. Thanks again for you insight.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Long brass will do it for sure but the times I've allowed it to get me I've seen extreme velocity at the crony, enough to scare the crap out of me and it will generally get the primer pockets as it is a true over pressure, vs long head spacing which is not over pressure but gives the appearance of it. Just make sure the over pressure is just not a symptom of other issues, generally to go from stuck bolt to fine pressure you need to back of a couple grains if your over pressure that bad and not some other issue.
Thanks again. As I said earlier, the once reloaded stuff did not stick like the like reloaded so I feel pretty certain it was because of additional stretch from being loaded more than once. Some of the once loaded didn't stick at all. I will let everyone know the results for sure.
NW Hunter
Well-Known Member
Carman, While I don't claim to know it all, I do shoot and load for 300 wm.
In all the talk about your problem, I never once saw anyone discuss how close the bullet's ogive is to the lands of your Savage. If you are touching or into the lands, you must start over at the minimum powder charge.
How far from the lands are you?
In all the talk about your problem, I never once saw anyone discuss how close the bullet's ogive is to the lands of your Savage. If you are touching or into the lands, you must start over at the minimum powder charge.
How far from the lands are you?
Johnboy
Well-Known Member
not trying to add gas to the fire but have one thing to add.you said the round was really accurate in the rugger rifel.what makes you think it will be just as accurate in the savage.I have yet found a load to shoot from one rifel to the other without doing something to the load.
it has always been my way of loading to just work a ladder test for each rifel.just as one has already said that one load from say gun ( a ) want always shoot in gun ( b,c or d )as a good reloader should do to be safe is to just work up a load.he wasn't at all being a butt.he was just wanting you to be safe for your own good thats all.I am sorry that you got the wrong idea.but will say that in many ways he was right.
but I do hope the trimming of the brass is just what the Doc ordered for you.
it has always been my way of loading to just work a ladder test for each rifel.just as one has already said that one load from say gun ( a ) want always shoot in gun ( b,c or d )as a good reloader should do to be safe is to just work up a load.he wasn't at all being a butt.he was just wanting you to be safe for your own good thats all.I am sorry that you got the wrong idea.but will say that in many ways he was right.
but I do hope the trimming of the brass is just what the Doc ordered for you.
That is a very good point and one I overlooked. I assumed that because he was using book loads, he was also using otherwise book OAL/3.34" If you are loading beyond that then you should work up the load or at the very least check to see how close you are to the lands in both rifles.
Johnboy I agree with you as well, but one individual's "accurate enough" is not always the same as the next. As far as my response to Tikkamike, I was sure he did not mean any harm but his wording made him sound pretty arrogant. I have seen some things he posted that were very informative and very good information to have, and I have no hard feelings. However it did seem like he was trying to completely discredit me with what he was saying when, although I did not list everything that could cause his problem, not one thing I said was wrong as he stated. All of us get rubbed the wrong way at times, or at first think what we are reading is wrong. In that case it is better to either ask for clarification or try to see where the other person is coming from. There are many factors that can give signs of high pressure yet have nothing to do with the powder charge. With the length of the brass and the situation I was trying to convey, and the intended recipient seemed to understand, even 2 grains less powder could cause high pressure or at least give the same signals. This is why every case has a maximum OAL. The charge and bullet weight can be just fine for the cartridge AND the chamber, yet still cause over pressure if all other factors are not accounted for. So considering his charge weight did not seem out of line, I believe there is something other than that causing his issue. It could be the case length, and it could be his loaded COAL as alternatively suggested. But I am positive it is more than one single factor. Find the other culprit, eliminate it, and I would bet that his charge weight is safe.
Reporting back on the results of the trimmed casings....CFVICKERS.....you were dead right. Trimming the cases back to 2.61 resolved all issues. I trimmed the cases, loaded the same load I have been using the past 18 months in the Ruger (75.4 grains of RL22 with a 180 grain Nosler E-Tip). Fired one and no problem with a sticky bolt at all. Fired 9 more and still no problem. Was more concerned with sticky bolt than trying to shoot tight groups, but all 10 were easily inside 1.5" at 100 yards. chronographed all 10 shots and all ranged from 2975-2981 with chronograph 10 feet from the end of the barrel. No flat primers, no loose primer pockets, no sticky bolt, no ejection problems, and nothing maimed or dead except the target I was aiming at. Learned plenty from everyone that commented and all comments are appreciated. This is a great place to get answers. Just curious though.....would like to hear everyone else's recipe for 300 Win Mag loads with 180 grain bullets. The E-Tip is OK for deer hunting, but I am going moose hunting this year and would like opinions about what would be good for moose.
Johnboy
Well-Known Member
well I see that the cases being long was the problem from what the OP stated in another post of his.I am glade to hear of this.
yes you are right there are many factors that will cause a spike in pressure.really to many to talk about and have already been said.just glade its all over and the OP can now go out and shoot his new rifel and loads safely.
yes you are right there are many factors that will cause a spike in pressure.really to many to talk about and have already been said.just glade its all over and the OP can now go out and shoot his new rifel and loads safely.
VICKERS.... I absorb everything everyone says. I just dont appreciate or tolerate arrogance or rudeness, especially when it's directed towards someone trying to help me. He made good points, and I understood where he was coming from. I just didn't like the way he addressed you or the "my solution is the ONLY solution" attitude.
Understood. Just wanted to make sure that you and others can see that there was a lot right in what he said, and I was only disputing the "one problem cut and dried" approach and the point that one chamber may be cut to tighter tolerance than another. It is always best to work up your loads, though I will admit that I don't always start at minimum load, usually 2-2.5 grains below max if I am wanting velocity and I load 2 rounds (fired back to back, no cool down) for each charge in .5 grain increments. If simply looking for accuracy I will go 5 rounds from minimum to maximum in either .5 or 1 grain increments depending on the spread. Once I have established which is most accurate I go up and down .2 then .5 to get the most accurate load. This is how I do my workups , I am not saying it is best, but it usually works for me. Make sure you pay attention to all details when loading for a new rifle, Proper brass prep, as you can see is just as important as powder charge and the bullet used. Be safe and have fun!
