300 WIn Mag confusion

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Carman, Jan 9, 2012.

  1. Carman

    Carman Well-Known Member

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    I have been reloading 300 WIn Mag ammo for about the last year to shoot in my Ruger MK77 Mark II. I settled on a load of 75.4 grains of RL22 behind a 180 grain Nosler E-Tip which gave me a MV of 2975 fps, which is just slightly higher than WInchester's factory loaded E-Tip which has a MV of 2950. These rounds shot very well from my Ruger. However, I just recently bought a Savage 111 Long Range Hunter in 300 Win Mag, and when I shoot these same loads from it, the bolt sticks and I can't remove the shell until several minutes later when the casing cools off. WHAT THE HECK??? Does the Savage have less tolerance in the chamber? I bought a box of Winchester XP3 ammo because our local crappy Bass Pro Shop doesn't carry the E-Tip, and it shot just fine, but the reloads stick like a fly on honey. Anyone have any experience with this Savage rifle or have any similar experience with a Savage.

    P.S. The spent primers on the XP3 ammo is flatter than the spent primers on my reloads.
     
  2. cfvickers

    cfvickers Well-Known Member

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    Are you neck sizing or FL sizing? My 111 LRH in 6.5-284 is tight enough that it does not allow for me to neck size. When I do I get a very stiff bolt lift with every round. But not stuck. If you are neck sizing, I would try a FL size. That is not a particularly stiff load. I use 76.5 grains behind a 190 hornady with no pressure signs what so ever in my 700. Given the increased bearing surface of the e-tip over a cup and core 180gr the 190 is likely a closer comparison, which is why I mention this load. However it is near max. Again, I would either FL size them or if you already are, try turning your die down about a quarter turn. Also have you measured the length of your brass. My 111 requires that I stay .002 under max saami length or that I keep them at 2.163 or less to avoid pressure and sticky bolt lift. Also winchester brass runs a touch long and in every single instance it has required trimming after the first firing with a factory loaded round. Just a few suggestions. I would bet your chamber is pretty tight, it aids in accuracy, and these guns are generally VERY accurate. Good luck and good shooting!!

    Cody
     

  3. Carman

    Carman Well-Known Member

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    I always do a FL sizing when I reload. I did measure the brass length last night and most exceeded the 2.62" length specified for the brass, including the once fired Winchester loads. I trimmed all of them back to 2.616 and will reload a few tonight to see how they do. This may very well cure the problem.

    BTW....I am going to also load some with H1000 to the same velocity as I am currently loading with the RL22. With the same bullet, at the same MV, can you tell me which powder will have the lowest CUP pressure?
     
  4. cfvickers

    cfvickers Well-Known Member

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    RL-22 is the only powder I have ever used with a 300 win mag, it always gave me great velocity, consistency and grouped as well as I expected from the rifle (under 3/4 MOA) with just about any combination. Not discouraging trying something else, just saying I found one thing that worked very well and stayed with it. I got lucky and got the burn rate I needed the first time. I have not tried H-1000 in anything so maybe someone else will help you out with that one.
     
  5. Carman

    Carman Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully the case trimming is going to do the trick. The RL22 has done fine for me as well until I shot it from the Savage. Makes sense that the case length could become an issue in a chamber that has little tolerance, especially since the Savage shoots WAY tighter groups than the Ruger ever thought about.
     
  6. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

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    Wrong!

    Carman, Its not a tight chamber its a factory chamber which IS SAAMI Spec. The problem is the load is too hot for that gun. Every gun is different and it is VERY obvious the loads are too hot in this gun. You can't just work up a load and shoot it any gun you want. You are lucky you didnt get hurt! Start over (at recommended starting load since it is obvious you dont have enough experience reloading to calculate a better starting point than what the book states) and work up from there. Sorry if this sounds mean but you need to wake up! you have 60,000PSI +/- by your face!Start over and be safe!
     
  7. Carman

    Carman Well-Known Member

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    Tikkamike.....I didn't just start with what the book said. I am not even at the max of what the book says. 2975 fps for a 180 grain bullet is nothing. I see people on here talking about going 3100+ fps with a 180 grain bullet. Are you telling me that the Ruger doesn't have a factory chamber that meets SAAMI specs? I might believe that because it was the most inconsistent rifle I have ever owned. That is why I got rid of it. On top of that, I shot two boxes of Winchester Ballistic Silvertip with 180 grain bullet through the Savage when I broke it in. Did not have any trouble whatsoever and they are loaded hotter than my loads (3000 fps MV). What say you about that?
     
  8. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

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    People that are getting 3100 FPS are doing so in rifles with much longer barrels than you have. The ruger which is 22" i believe.. maybe 24" and the savage is also 24" (they say 26" but that is including the brake) will not produce those velocities under normal circumstances. All factory rifles have chambers that are within SAAMI Spec. However the savage is set at minimum headspace due to a good design that makes that possible on every rifle they make. I understand your problem with ruger, I do not care for them for many reasons, although I do own a few. I have gotten rid of many more than I have kept and I no longer buy them.

    As far as you getting 3000 fps from factory loads...well factory ammo is not equal to your reloads. They use powders and primers that are not commercially available, and are able to get results that many times can not be duplicated. Either that or your chronograph is wrong
     
  9. cfvickers

    cfvickers Well-Known Member

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    Ok, No further pressure signs, not even flattened primers. Using brass that has not been trimmed and I have personally had issues (identical) with winchester brass being too long after firing factory ammo. The chamber on my own 111LRH will have a sticky bolt lift with ANY load if neck sizing, which is why I mentioned this. I am certain his chamber is sammi spec. However there are +/- tolerances in SAAMI specced chambers. If his were toward the lower end of the specs it would be quite a bit tighter than if it were at the upper end. I did not say tight neck or the such, I was speaking of the entire chamber, specifically the length of the chamber. If the case mouth jams into the end of the chamber when he fires it with the reload but has not measured the length of the case then it could very well be a safe load with brass that is beyond specs, which he said it was. I informed him that his load was near max, but did not seem unreasonable, which is the exact reason I discussed other possible causes. I have seen flattened primers with loads that were not hot, but I have not seen hot loads without flattened primers. That said, If you believe that every single SAAMI spec chamber has the exact same dimensions, then you need to get your head out of a book or off the web and go find you a dozen and try them. Why do you think all rifles have different maximum loads???? Because all chambers are not identical, even in factory rifles.
    This makes it sound as though you could use a little more experience yourself. Not everything you said was wrong, but nothing you said could possibly have proven me wrong. If the chamber were not saami specs he could not fire factory loads safely. I believe he understand that better than you apparently do.
     
  10. Carman

    Carman Well-Known Member

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    Not a problem with the chronograph. When I bought mine, I had two other friends that bought one at the same time.....one the same brand and model as mine and the other a step up from mine. Just for grins, we all shot through all three chronographs just to see if they were fairly consistent with each other and they were. Like you say, the headspace in the Savage has much less tolerance and that is why I am going to I'm the casings and try my load one more time before doing something drastically different. Seems you know a fair amount so let me ask you this.......will H1000 loaded to the same MV as RL22, with the same bullet, produce more, less, or about the same CUP pressure?
     
  11. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

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    This was my point, not all rifles are created equal, I believe I stated one load that is good in one rifle does mean its good in another. You said tight chamber, you were wrong, plain and simple. Yes you may have meant low end of the SAAMI spec which would make it tighter but by definition you were 100% wrong and I can not go off of what you meant to say... only what you DID say. I obviously upset you which is understandable but it is what it is.
     
  12. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

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    I couldnt tell you I would have to do some reading, I put little stock in those numbers because I have no way to test them so its really anyones (educated) guess without proper testing equipment. Just build your loads until you see pressure signs and decide from there (based on case life and velocity) as to how hot you want it. Then you can use a program like exbal or a couple others to calculate your pressure if you really want to.
     
  13. Carman

    Carman Well-Known Member

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    CFVICKERS.....thanks for coming to my defense. I certainly don't claim to be an expert on reloading, but I am not stupid either so I app irate your comments. I think you are probably right on about my casing lengths. As I said, I trimmed them last night and I intend to load just a few back to my load I have been using all along and see if the problem persists or goes away. If it goes away, then I know to Tim the casings each time. I can also add that I had one box of reloads that were on their second time around and a box that had just been reloaded once. After having a couple of the twice loaded cartridges stick on me, I tried some of the once reloaded cartridges and only had the problem with 2 of the 4 that I fired. Once I realized that I was getting nowhere with the reloads, I grabbed a box of factory loads and finished playing for the day.

    Tikkamike....you are right about one thing, the factory has powders and bullets that we don't have access to, but they aren't magical. I never load over maximum recommended and I always start low and work up until I reach the best results for my shooting capabilities. The load I shot in the Ruger never failed so I had no reason to believe that it would do any differently in the Savage.
     
  14. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

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    You can lead them to water but you cant make them drink..... good luck