111 Long Range Hunter in 300 Win Mag

[338winmag]

Ah now I see your thoughts.
I luv my lead sled for "testing" reloads. I can go out and shoot 60 rounds from my 338 Win Mag and not think twice about it.

Except... went out Friday and had a winter hat on. I did not realize that it had kept one of my ear protection cups from being completely over the ear. I always wear two ear protections but Friday for some stupid reason I did not. Now I am paying for it. In one ear I have a slight ringing still. Taking Vitamin B12 and decongestant to see if that will clear it. so far no go.

Yeah I have a muzzle brake. Probably why.
thanks
338WinMag

 

[liltank]

Something else you can try, and this was suggested and I made the adjustments. Dry fire the rifle and see what direction the bolt body moves. If it moves in a forward direction it is okay, but if it moves forward and to the left, then you need to adjust the fire pin cocking pin. If it is moving forward and to the left then this cocking pin is contacting the front of the notch. I was told this can cause erratic accuracy. Simply allen head bolt loose in the back of the bolt that holds it together. Remove the firing pin assembly and back it off a couple turns.

One thing you can do so you are not putting it together and tearing it apart, use something stiff to hold the firing pin forward so you can lift the cocking pin and see where it is in the notch. You want the cocking just shy of the notch. Each turn is about .010" per notch.

Also measure the protrusion of the firing pin through the bolt face. It should only be between .050 and .055" from the bolt face. Any more or any less, then it needs to be adjusted by turning the spring retaining collar on the front of the firing pin. You will need to back off the tension off turning the rear collar where the cocking pin is at. Be careful you don't turn it too much as it will fly apart. It's a pain adjusting the front collar because you have to compress the spring and pull down the locking washer. PM me and we can discuss this via phone if you want.

One question, have you tried reloading for this rifle? Did you take it apart at all and change the torque setting on the front locking lug of the accu-stock? Also try removing the front locking lug, some guys are doing this to increase accuracy with this rifle and using it as regular aluminum v-block.

Tank

 

[Good]

Something else you can try, and this was suggested and I made the adjustments. Dry fire the rifle and see what direction the bolt body moves. If it moves in a forward direction it is okay, but if it moves forward and to the left, then you need to adjust the fire pin cocking pin. If it is moving forward and to the left then this cocking pin is contacting the front of the notch. I was told this can cause erratic accuracy. Simply allen head bolt loose in the back of the bolt that holds it together. Remove the firing pin assembly and back it off a couple turns.

One thing you can do so you are not putting it together and tearing it apart, use something stiff to hold the firing pin forward so you can lift the cocking pin and see where it is in the notch. You want the cocking just shy of the notch. Each turn is about .010" per notch.

Also measure the protrusion of the firing pin through the bolt face. It should only be between .050 and .055" from the bolt face. Any more or any less, then it needs to be adjusted by turning the spring retaining collar on the front of the firing pin. You will need to back off the tension off turning the rear collar where the cocking pin is at. Be careful you don't turn it too much as it will fly apart. It's a pain adjusting the front collar because you have to compress the spring and pull down the locking washer. PM me and we can discuss this via phone if you want.

One question, have you tried reloading for this rifle? Did you take it apart at all and change the torque setting on the front locking lug of the accu-stock? Also try removing the front locking lug, some guys are doing this to increase accuracy with this rifle and using it as regular aluminum v-block.

Tank

awesome info! And it was discussed in another thread the barrel is thicker than sporter weight and should do fine for three shot groups. I was thinking it was sporter but apparently it is heavier than that. It definitely should shoot well.

Sorry to hear about your ear! Hope everything comes back ok!

 

[geargrinder]

Usually when you basically have two groups (clusters) it indicates something shifting. Bedding, scope, ??

This is my suspicion as well. Check the rings, bases, action screws.

How often are you cleaning the barrel?

Most of my Savage factory barrels liked to be shot dirty. At least 15-20 rounds. It was the difference between 2" groups and .5" groups.

 

[cowboy]

Has anyone else experienced this: Please respond.
I tried to keep him encouraged, making up some excuses as we went but groups for all three ammunitions were not only so freaking inconsistent you had to wonder if you were dreaming, but the groups were often 5-8 inches at 200 yards. Not one single grouping was decent. Not one.

He takes the rifles and correct the issues and guarantees 1/2 groups at 100 yards with premium over the counter ammo.
Very Sad and Mad
338 WinMag

The first thing I would do is not panick and the second thing I'd do is not get TOYALLY UPSET until you know what is going on. There has to be something drastically wrong for a rifle to shoot 5-8" groups. Hell - that's smooth bore accuracy. I can't help but believe that scope, mount, bases or something is really out of wack. If you take this to your savage gunsmith guru and he can make a 5-8" rifle into a 1/2" without it being in the scope, bases, mounts etc. - I want to know his name and address.

Hopefully you'll get to the bottom of this. As for Savage - my experience has been nothing but positive when I have had a problem. Let us know how things end up.

 

[The bullet]

I had a similar issue with mine (LRH in .300 WM). Was brand new....loaded up some 200 gr Sierra Gamekings with RL22 and took it to the range. From a lead sled it grouped approx 4-6" at 100 yards.... Very disappointed.

Called Savage, was told to try different loads, etc... But pressed a bit about more technical questions about the measured distance to lands, etc. and asked if I could speak to someone in engineering. They told me Steve (pretty sure that is his name) was involved in the LRH development??? I left a message for him to call me about this. He called me back and discussed the problem, and that the one he owns is shooting around 1/2". He stated that they only claim 1.5" but that they usually are capable of much better groups. He recommended that I try Hornady 165 GMX Superformance and see what that would do.

I picked up the Hornady ammo and took it to the range and the results were a pattern of approx 12" group (if you could call it that) at 100 yards. (Not bad mouthing that ammo, at all. Just was worse than my handloads in this rifle, with its defects) Called Steve back and discussed the results of the Hornady test. He got me tranferred over to Customer Service to issue a call tag to send the rifle back to Savage to his attention.

I sent my rifle in with my target and received a call from Steve maybe a week later that they had their tech dept go through the gun and make sure there weren't any issues and that they found a few things and now the rifle shoots .6" at 100 yards as tested at Savage. He said something about a crown issue or something?

Anyways, took the remaining 200 gr Sierras that I originally loaded to the range. The results were much different from before....shot approx 1.5" at 200 yards. I havent done a thing with it after that as I have been busy with other projects and builds. I am confident that this will shoot even better as that 1.5" group was with rounds that all had different powder charges. (Trying to find some nodes).

Hope this helps you. Savage handled this very well in my experience, and hopefully you could get in touch with Steve and see if yours has a similar issue.

 

[elkaholic]

" A crown issue "means that they re- crowned it because it was messed up! This makes perfect sense for a group like that......

 

[The bullet]

Yeah. Said that they had seen a couple of problems with the crown not being machined right to accomodate that muzzle break that they put on it. Not his exact words, but the jist of it.

 

[dana bodnar]

Your model 111 is a custom rifle and just might not like factory ammo. I own the same gun and it shot the same way as yours until I broke the barrel in, and then I devolped the load which my barrel likes.

If you want to shoot factory ammo, sell the gun. If you want a 1000 yard rifle, keep it and work up a nice load .

Try this: 178-g Hornaday a-max
Fedral 215-m primer
73.5 grains re-loader 22 and set your coal @ 3440

Very Important, Savage's ACCUSTOCK is made of fiberglass & aluminum and the mounting bolts MUST BE TORQUED to 40" inch lbs.

This rifle likes a longer bullet seating. Shoot that at the range and repost here to see how it worked for you.

Thx Dana
Phx, AZ
1000-yard shooter

 

[beakus33]

I'm gonna throw my stupid 2 cents worth in and ask if somebody else has shot this rifle or just him?

 

[Jinx-)]

It looks like I'm not the only one who gets lemons from Savage, I would say from my last two purchases that's typical accuracy I got. 338 WinMag take a look at the groups I was getting with Savage model 12 LRP any resemblance what you are getting? http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f37/savage-target-crown-72767/

there was a problem with a barrel which required replacement which never took place and they send me different rifle with different caliber with even more issues... At that point I had enough so I fixed everything myself, should of gone build myself road to begin with...

338 WinMag who are you dealing with, I'm talking about Savage customer service?

 

[Greyfox]

I'm on my third Savage in the last few years, including a LRH in 6.5x284. They all shoot .5MOA or better, but there are things that need adddressing before the would do that. All three came out of the box with the bedding screws not torqued down tight enough, they unscrew way too easily. Secondly, two including the LRH had the stock ant the fre end tip contacting the barrel. This should be sanded to free float the barrel. The other thing to watch is the foreword scope base receiver screw holes. It can be too shallow for standard base screws. I had to remove about .020" off the screw. This may not be perceptible and result in a loose mount. The LRH I have does not have the "wedge" on the accustock, just the aluminum v-block. It is very important that all the Savages have the bedding screws torqued to 40#, no more, no less. I also check head space and distance to the lands and would say that they do throat long enough for use with the longer VLD style bullets. All three of my rifles headspace was .001" longer then Lapua new brass, very good. It shouldn't be the case, but I feel I must thoroughly check all factory rifles out, and they all need fine tuning, including Remingtons, Winchesters etc. An 8" group at 200 yards means something is really off. I would go to the scope/mounting system first. With all due respect to pro gunsmiths, if I don't do it myself, I don't trust it. I have learned the
hard way. If I did all this, tested a few proven loads and it still wouln't group, keep calling Savage and go up the management chain until they take it back and fix it.

 

[Bart B]

Some years ago I was testing some .308 Win. loads in a match rifle to get a starting zero at 100 yards. A Unertl 20x target scope was on it and the whole rifle and with its heavy barrel and target stock, it drew lots of attention. So I asked folks if they would like to try it. Several said yes. Half a dozen or so sat down and fired a 5-shot group at 100 yards. Those groups varied from about 1 inch to 2 inches. My own groups were about 1.3 inch or a little bigger. From a proper machine rest, it would shoot all day long well inside 1/3 inch.

Everyone does not shoot a given rifle with equal accuracy; they don't hold them the same way for each shot. And nobody I know can shoot a high power rifle held against their shoulder as repeatable as one in a machine rest; from a bench or in any other shooting position. Which is why benchresters shoot their one-holers in free recoil; untouched by humans except for a light finger touch on their 1 to 2 ounce triggers.

 

[Greyfox]

Some years ago I was testing some .308 Win. loads in a match rifle to get a starting zero at 100 yards. A Unertl 20x target scope was on it and the whole rifle and with its heavy barrel and target stock, it drew lots of attention. So I asked folks if they would like to try it. Several said yes. Half a dozen or so sat down and fired a 5-shot group at 100 yards. Those groups varied from about 1 inch to 2 inches. My own groups were about 1.3 inch or a little bigger. From a proper machine rest, it would shoot all day long well inside 1/3 inch.

Everyone does not shoot a given rifle with equal accuracy; they don't hold them the same way for each shot. And nobody I know can shoot a high power rifle held against their shoulder as repeatable as one in a machine rest; from a bench or in any other shooting position. Which is why benchresters shoot their one-holers in free recoil; untouched by humans except for a light finger touch on their 1 to 2 ounce triggers.

I think your point is a good one. The shooter is probably the biggest variable in the accuracy of a given rifle. I believe that not all , but some of the big manufacturers such as Reminton, Savage, Winchester, etc. have their support departments trained with a list of questions as well as being tuned into the details when someone calls with an accuracy problem. I am sure they would go broke if they took back every rifle that they had a a call on, and would likely find that when tested, the rifle was OK. I'm not implying that this is the case with the OP. Our company sells labotatory testing equipment that guarantees a certain result, but like shooting a rifle, there is a degree of knowledge and preparation required to get those results. Our support dept is heavily trained to listen and ask certain questions to try and determine whether the problem is with our product, or the operator. If we get answers that indicate there is a problem with our product, or can't determine what the cause is,we will take it back, or send an engineer. Well over 90% of our calls for replacement are operator issues and we work to fix the issue with training. We do get an occasional product that is faulty, but then try to figure out the cause and address it. As more rifle manufacturers start to guarantee accuracy or sell higher priced "Long Range" or "Target" rifles, they wll have to put a similar process in place if they don't already have one. IMO.