1000 yds...Next step?

[Decay]

Hello everyone!

I have been lurking trying to absorb as much info as I can on my first 1000 yd rifle and shooting, but this is my first post!


I started this journey 6 months ago and have been (IMO) progressing decently. But I hit a spot(no pun intended) and am not sure what direction to go.

A little back story to help in suggested course of action.

I have never been a rifle shooter (I grew up in an area with only shotgun hunting) So I purchased a Savage 10 FCP-K in .308 win.

My first 3 months of shooting was just getting used to a rifle. In those 3 months I became very comfortable with my gun and shooting techniques(holding 1-1.5" groups) that I felt it was time to start the next step.

I started building a stock that was more comfortable to me (I am 6'5" 275lbs so the cheap plastic feels like a toothpick to me). I finished the stock (free-float barrel and glass bed included) and started working on load that worked well.

In my load development I usually shot 100-300 yards. I settled on a couple different loads. 168 SMK and 155 SMK Palma. At this point I can shoot .5-.75 moa.

Yesterday I had my first opportunity to shoot at 1000 just to see how I did with the 155gr SMK Palma. I was shooting a pallet sized piece of cardboard because it was all I had ( I now know what a swinging/gong target works best). My spotter and I both thought I was on target but I was slightly off target not allowing me to see my groups. I shot a 5 shot group adjusted the scope 10 inches lower and shot another 5 rounds. What I was left with was one 5 shot group that I am guessing was a combination of both groups (this measured 31.25" for reference). So I have no true idea of the actual group sizes. My first goal is 1 moa at 1000.

Now we come to the root of this massive explanation...I do not know what to do next.

I am thinking I need to work on the ammo. The rounds I developed are shooting well at 300 but I am guessing they are not great at 1000. When I would load them a faster the groups would start to grow.

I am looking for any guidance on my next course of action because I am stumped.

Thank you in advance!

 

[sendero72]

You may want to back down to say 600yds and do a drop chart. Then use the G7 ballistic software on this site so you will know what your bullet is doing. Keep good notes on your reloads. Try neck sizing only or adjusting your seating depth. Do more shooting in the 500 to 600 yd range before jumping all the way to 1000yds.

 

[trebark]

Shooting groups at a thousand yards can be difficult even for the most experienced shooter. Personally, although I've shot 1000 yards and beyond, I've never really tried to shoot a group much past 500 yards.

Other things to consider....

Trigger - what's the weight of pull on your trigger? for good long range shooting it needs to be at 2lbs or lighter.

Barrel Crown - if you're shooting a factory barrel, you might want to recrown the barrel just to be sure that it is square to the bore.

Optics - You need top quality optics for long range shooting.

If all else fails, send the gun to me and I'll take care of it

 

[backwoods83]

+1
Also you are not going to light the world on fire with a 308 at 1k. Also I would look at the 175 or 180 SMK or 178 hornady bthp match. The 155s and 168s are only good for about 600 sometimes 700 if driven hard enough. I don't know if you have a chrony to check your velocity, I have a barrel identical to yours on an old school stagger feed long action an it absolutely loves being run wide open.

 

[Decay]

thank for the early replies.

I know there is a lot of stuff to shoot very good at that distance. I am treating this as a journey not a destination.

Like the old saying goes give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day...teaching a man to fish will feed him for a lifetime. I am looking for guidance on what to look for (i.e. bullet stabilization, groups at XXX yds, ect)

My trigger is set as light as it can go from the factory. 2.5# I believe.

I downloaded and used the shooter app to get my drop charts and that got me very close to the target.

The factory muzzle brake is installed so i do not know what the crown looks like.

I will upgrade the optics later this year...probably before game season this fall.


I also figured i would hang around the 600 range for a while. Should I focus on grouping at that distance? Initially I thought that the best group at 100 would be the best at 1000...I am guessing that is incorrect because I often run well below max pressure.

I am also new to reloading and do not know enough about pressures to push anything. are there any "go to" readings on this topic that I should check out? Because I assume (beginners thinking) that the faster the bullet the longer it will stabilize? Wouldn't that possibly make it more sporadic at shorter ranges?

 

[Decay]

+1
Also you are not going to light the world on fire with a 308 at 1k. Also I would look at the 175 or 180 SMK or 178 hornady bthp match. The 155s and 168s are only good for about 600 sometimes 700 if driven hard enough. I don't know if you have a chrony to check your velocity, I have a barrel identical to yours on an old school stagger feed long action an it absolutely loves being run wide open.

I was told by rep at sierra that the 155gr was the best choice (taken with a grain of salt from a salesman) because it had a BC comparable to a heavier bullet but could be pushed faster. Why are you suggesting 175/180? because they maintain stability longer?

I have no chronograph. I know what the function of the chrony is...but how will that help me? Faster=better? To make sure I am getting consistent velocity?

Thanks for your help so far.

 

[Broz]

Was your 1000 yard group taller or wider?

Have you read this?

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f116/importance-being-solid-91149/

Jeff

 

[Rimfire]

I would look at the 175 SMK or another bullet (175 class Berger) and push them hard enough to stay super sonic at 1k. Dont worry about the trigger or crown if it is shooting, work on a 1k load. Some bullets going sub sonic dont transition well. The 175's have worked well for me at 1K.

If you are getting decent groups at 600 then go for it.

 

[backwoods83]

The chrony is merely a tool for consistancy, we are shooting not drag racing. Fact is though the faster you can move a bullet and maintain consistency the better it will group. At 600yrds you should be checking your vertical spread, if one is way low and another way high its back to the drawing board. The rep at sierra probably neglected to mention that the 155 smk palma was designed for 29-32" 13 twist barrels to try to get velocity past 3k fps, you my friend are over stablizing this bullet in your 10 twist. The 155 palma has about the same bc as the 180 above 2750fps after that it fades quick where the 180 will hold its own, look on sierras website and compare the 2 as velocity drops. I'm not giving you a hard time about the 308 it is capable, if you can master it enough to get a 5 shot group under 18" at 1k then you could probably do exceptional with a cartridge more suited for that distance.

 

[WildRose]

Hello everyone!

I have been lurking trying to absorb as much info as I can on my first 1000 yd rifle and shooting, but this is my first post!


I started this journey 6 months ago and have been (IMO) progressing decently. But I hit a spot(no pun intended) and am not sure what direction to go.

A little back story to help in suggested course of action.

I have never been a rifle shooter (I grew up in an area with only shotgun hunting) So I purchased a Savage 10 FCP-K in .308 win.

My first 3 months of shooting was just getting used to a rifle. In those 3 months I became very comfortable with my gun and shooting techniques(holding 1-1.5" groups) that I felt it was time to start the next step.

I started building a stock that was more comfortable to me (I am 6'5" 275lbs so the cheap plastic feels like a toothpick to me). I finished the stock (free-float barrel and glass bed included) and started working on load that worked well.

In my load development I usually shot 100-300 yards. I settled on a couple different loads. 168 SMK and 155 SMK Palma. At this point I can shoot .5-.75 moa.

Yesterday I had my first opportunity to shoot at 1000 just to see how I did with the 155gr SMK Palma. I was shooting a pallet sized piece of cardboard because it was all I had ( I now know what a swinging/gong target works best). My spotter and I both thought I was on target but I was slightly off target not allowing me to see my groups. I shot a 5 shot group adjusted the scope 10 inches lower and shot another 5 rounds. What I was left with was one 5 shot group that I am guessing was a combination of both groups (this measured 31.25" for reference). So I have no true idea of the actual group sizes. My first goal is 1 moa at 1000.

Now we come to the root of this massive explanation...I do not know what to do next.

I am thinking I need to work on the ammo. The rounds I developed are shooting well at 300 but I am guessing they are not great at 1000. When I would load them a faster the groups would start to grow.

I am looking for any guidance on my next course of action because I am stumped.

Thank you in advance!

Beyone 600yds you need a heavier and higher BC bullet.

Take a look at the Lapua Scenar 167's and 185's, Or Bergers in the 168-180gr wts.

Those should work very well for you on paper and steel. Heavier/higher BC bullets won't run as fast (muzzle velocity) as the lighter bullets, but with nearly all of them you'll see that the heavier/slower Higher BC bullets will hold their velocities far better than the light bullets once you get beyond 400yds.

Like someone else said, it's not a drag race, it's about precision.

Now when it comes time to take that rig hunting look at the Berger VLD hunting bullets, Nosler Accubond, Hornady SST's and Interlocks, and Scrirocco's.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Decay]

Was your 1000 yard group taller or wider?

Have you read this?

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f116/importance-being-solid-91149/

Jeff

The group was taller.

Thank you for this thread.

 

[Broz]

The group was taller.

Thank you for this thread.

Ok, things to watch for. If groups continue to be taller than wide then you might be running too much variation in velocity shot to shot also known as ES "extreme spread" If so load work will help this.

The other thing is to make sure you have a solid bag under the rear of the stock and it the rear rest does not collapse under recoil.

Work on these and see if you can improve.

Jeff

 

[Decay]

T. At 600yrds you should be checking your vertical spread, if one is way low and another way high its back to the drawing board.


I'm not giving you a hard time about the 308 it is capable, if you can master it enough to get a 5 shot group under 18" at 1k then you could probably do exceptional with a cartridge more suited for that distance.

When you say one low and one way high I am not sure what exactly that means. 1 moa difference between them? .5 moa? Where is the cut off to an acceptable load (i understand that it will always be tweaked to gain more performance, im just looking for an idea)

I am also well aware that there are more capable calibers for what I am trying to do. I chose this caliber because it was an inexpensive learning tool to get me off the ground.

Thank you for your help.

 

[Decay]

Ok, things to watch for. If groups continue to be taller than wide then you might be running too much variation in velocity shot to shot also known as ES "extreme spread" If so load work will help this.

The other thing is to make sure you have a solid bag under the rear of the stock and it the rear rest does not collapse under recoil.

Work on these and see if you can improve.

Jeff

I was pretty solid prone with a rear bag.

I will look at my velocities to see if they are consistent.

Thank you.