WildRose
Well-Known Member
A state courts judge in a divorce case cannot alleviate liabilty under federal firearms laws.
The OP needs to not pass go and head directly to a good attorney.
Gun ownership case. I need help PLEASE!
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The OP needs to not pass go and head directly to a good attorney.
winmag
Well-Known Member
IMO,
Tikkamike has the 100% best advise period in BOTH posts.
Now, the fact that he has "violent tendancys", makes me agree, to ABSOLUTELY make HIM prove his ability to own them thru an FFL. & if he couldn't, then the FFL paying cash for them is gonna look like a good deal to him. You wouldn't be "that guy" with a Target on his back for turning them into the police.
As far as the felon thing goes,
We don't know if this guy left a bar & happened to have 2 beers in 1 hour, instead of 1, & now has a DWI/Felony. How many folks here have had 2 beers THEN drove home?
I'm not down playing the DWI thing, but I have a relitave that got HOSED for having LESS than the legal limmit, but a couple high crack heads ran a stopsign & wrecked him. Guess what, they refused to test, got booked, then let go. My relitave got charged with fault of the crash, got given a DWI, & cited as a FELON, for 2 beers, cause he co-operated with the cops.... Hmmm is hrs a "felon" now. Pure B.S.
Not ALL felons are bad people. SOME HOWEVER ARE VERY BAD.
We can't jump to conclusions, but, giving the guy options like the FFL /$ thing, leaves you, & your wife LESS FROWNED UPON BY A PERSON, (known by you, & your wife to be Violent on occasion), & also clears you of responsibility.
I'm not pittying the man. Bullying women deserves severe, & harsh punnishment imo, but I'm on the outside lookin in here, & I have no first hand knowledge or experience with this guy, you, or your wife, or his current wife, so I'm trying to be as objective ad possible here.
If he is what he sounds like, he'll never pass the background check, & the $ will look apealing to him. Plus the ATF won't have any reason to dislike you.... You are strictly going that route to CYA, even a bad guy can respect that.
If he does pass then he's legaly able to possess his "own" (court appointed) firearms, & the ATF still has no reason to dislike you. And like any good gun loving citizen, you legally CYA, & never had to get the law involved.
I'm from a small town, & we always handle things on our own unless its absolutely nesicary to involve law enforcement. Folks don't always get along or agree, but whenever the law gets involved, there is a deep division on who's side who is on in a small town. Those scars take a LOOOOONG time to heal.
Look, gun controll Nazi's love to have "weapons" turned into the police for ANY reason. Any reason at all to melt them down, & be used as statistics for twisted purposes, to promote anti gun crap.
If this guy is what he sounds like, & you take Tikkamikes advise, everybody wins, & no gun controll freaks get any victorys.
Tikkamike has the 100% best advise period in BOTH posts.
Now, the fact that he has "violent tendancys", makes me agree, to ABSOLUTELY make HIM prove his ability to own them thru an FFL. & if he couldn't, then the FFL paying cash for them is gonna look like a good deal to him. You wouldn't be "that guy" with a Target on his back for turning them into the police.
As far as the felon thing goes,
We don't know if this guy left a bar & happened to have 2 beers in 1 hour, instead of 1, & now has a DWI/Felony. How many folks here have had 2 beers THEN drove home?
I'm not down playing the DWI thing, but I have a relitave that got HOSED for having LESS than the legal limmit, but a couple high crack heads ran a stopsign & wrecked him. Guess what, they refused to test, got booked, then let go. My relitave got charged with fault of the crash, got given a DWI, & cited as a FELON, for 2 beers, cause he co-operated with the cops.... Hmmm is hrs a "felon" now. Pure B.S.
Not ALL felons are bad people. SOME HOWEVER ARE VERY BAD.
We can't jump to conclusions, but, giving the guy options like the FFL /$ thing, leaves you, & your wife LESS FROWNED UPON BY A PERSON, (known by you, & your wife to be Violent on occasion), & also clears you of responsibility.
I'm not pittying the man. Bullying women deserves severe, & harsh punnishment imo, but I'm on the outside lookin in here, & I have no first hand knowledge or experience with this guy, you, or your wife, or his current wife, so I'm trying to be as objective ad possible here.
If he is what he sounds like, he'll never pass the background check, & the $ will look apealing to him. Plus the ATF won't have any reason to dislike you.... You are strictly going that route to CYA, even a bad guy can respect that.
If he does pass then he's legaly able to possess his "own" (court appointed) firearms, & the ATF still has no reason to dislike you. And like any good gun loving citizen, you legally CYA, & never had to get the law involved.
I'm from a small town, & we always handle things on our own unless its absolutely nesicary to involve law enforcement. Folks don't always get along or agree, but whenever the law gets involved, there is a deep division on who's side who is on in a small town. Those scars take a LOOOOONG time to heal.
Look, gun controll Nazi's love to have "weapons" turned into the police for ANY reason. Any reason at all to melt them down, & be used as statistics for twisted purposes, to promote anti gun crap.
If this guy is what he sounds like, & you take Tikkamikes advise, everybody wins, & no gun controll freaks get any victorys.
I would keep the guns locked in my safe knowing that the guy may be unstable. The guns are registered in your wife's name. If the ex husband demands the guns, refuse. Tell him you will sell the guns and give him the money. If he agrees get him to put it in writing and sell them. The only way he can get them is to set up a hearing to enforce the divorce decree. He probably won't do that knowing the reason why you took them. If he does, appear and explain to the court the circumstances and put the ball in their court. If he threatens to act aggressively to get the guns back, call the law and explain the circumstances, or call an attorney for advise. This is just an opinion, and what I might do in these circumstances.
winmag
Well-Known Member
Good advise, but what if they are legally his guns, (court appointed remember) & you don't give them back? Doesn't that make you a thief?
not to mention paint a HUGE TARGET on your wifes back, as well as your own? Could you let your wife go to the grocery store without that thought nagging away at you?
Look, he's got court appointed ownership of said firearms. Thee are his, unless he can't own them. Again FFL route seems to satisify everyone involved. If he's the p.o.s. he sounds like, he'll never handle them again. IF he's legally alowed to possess them they are his guns. Who are we to judge someone we know nothing about?
Like I said IF he is the P.O.S. he appears to be, he's never gonna handle them again.
mtelkhntr78
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2008
- Messages
- 183
I agree with those that say talk to an attorney. We advice all day on what you SHOULD do but that doesnt really matter. What matters is what you can LEGALLY do. The person that has those answers is an attorney. Whatever you may pay in legal fees could be a strong insurance policy against any wrondoing that could be brought against you in the future.
liltank
Well-Known Member
The bigger problem is the "Straw Purchase." Knowingly or knowing the individual can not purchase a firearm due to a criminal background CAN NOT purchase a firearm for said individual. In other words, get a lawyer quickly. She may have to defend herself. Not to mention the sporting goods store that sold the firearm is going to have to lawyer up too. Now that thid thing is viral, its not going to be nice for anyone.
I think your overlooking a simple solution, don't even get into the who bought what.
Go to the PD drop them off and tell the police that these are your wifes ex-husbands guns. They were dropped off at your house by his current wife. You don't want them in your house, and don't want to return them to him because you fear for his currents wifes saftey. Trust me they will run his record, and determine if he can get them back.
Get a reciept mail it to the ex-husband letting him know where they are and that he can go get them.
These guns in fact were never her ex-husbands, while they were married.
They only became his when a judge gave them to him in the divorce.
Go to the PD drop them off and tell the police that these are your wifes ex-husbands guns. They were dropped off at your house by his current wife. You don't want them in your house, and don't want to return them to him because you fear for his currents wifes saftey. Trust me they will run his record, and determine if he can get them back.
Get a reciept mail it to the ex-husband letting him know where they are and that he can go get them.
These guns in fact were never her ex-husbands, while they were married.
They only became his when a judge gave them to him in the divorce.
if your wife purchased them for him originally as a straw purchaser than DO NOT INVOLVE LAW ENFORCEMENT IF POSSIBLE. Use this as a last resort. The records at the FFL are all that matters in a court of law. If he cannot provide a reciept than they are not his they are infact your wifes. Tikkas suggestion of using an ffl in this case is the only other solution. If the man can prove they are his but can not have possession of them the other option for him is a "Firearm Trust" were he sets up legal papers of possession for someone else to be the transferee until a time were he may become legal. DO NOT JUST GIVE THEM TO HIM IT COULD LAND YOUR WIFE IN JAIL FOR A VERY LONG TIME WITH NO HOPE OF EXPUNGEMENT!!!!
I just delt with this with a "friend" who got in trouble for domestic violence. His wife transfered the weapons to me so he could get released from jail and return to the home. after acouple of weeks he demanded the return of the firearms one of which was used in a prior disturbance. i refused and offered to do it threw an ffl and went to the police they told me not to give them back as he could not be in the same house as the arms. he came while i was at work and threatened my wife she returned the arms, (important) she followed him to his home, photographed him taking the arms into his house and then we filed a report with the police. the police got a warrant, went to his house and confiscated the arms. I was in the process of transfering the arms to his brother who is a swat member.
stucky situtation but you and your wife do not want to become felons over this puke
hope this helps
Cowboys advise is good except that if he is vengeful he may accuse your wife
I just delt with this with a "friend" who got in trouble for domestic violence. His wife transfered the weapons to me so he could get released from jail and return to the home. after acouple of weeks he demanded the return of the firearms one of which was used in a prior disturbance. i refused and offered to do it threw an ffl and went to the police they told me not to give them back as he could not be in the same house as the arms. he came while i was at work and threatened my wife she returned the arms, (important) she followed him to his home, photographed him taking the arms into his house and then we filed a report with the police. the police got a warrant, went to his house and confiscated the arms. I was in the process of transfering the arms to his brother who is a swat member.
stucky situtation but you and your wife do not want to become felons over this puke
hope this helpsCowboys advise is good except that if he is vengeful he may accuse your wife
I agree with you position on FFL transfer. My response makes the assumption that this guy can't make it through the FFL process. If he can't , it gets sticky. If the OP even thinks this guy will get aggressive, I'd go to the law or an attorney. If this happens it's a good thing they took the guns. She didn't steal the guns, they were given to her by the new wife, now legally a co owner. This concept is how he was awarded the guns in the first place. I guess this all makes for an interesting discussion but if I were the OP I'd check with my lawyer before I did anything but my priority would be to keep the guns out of the ex husbands hands until resolved.
nfhjr62
Well-Known Member
See a LAWYER is best and safe bet to do
texan79
Well-Known Member
If Wyoming is a comunity property state, the wife has just as much control of them as he does. If she gave them to you, and professes so, theyre yours. If my ex went out and spent all my money prior to the divorce, the stores wouldnt have to give me the money back. Keep em.
I don't see any of this as a big deal.
The guy's wife asked you to take possession of their guns residing in their communal house for safe keeping because of your wife's potential ownership interest and history in the case.
The wife has the right to do that, and now, technically speaking, your wife has possession.
The guy wants his guns back...fine, but the guns are potential community property until otherwise decreed.
You might want to let the court know that you have them, and as a friend of the court, intend to keep them safe awaiting a decision made by the court as to their final disposition...or not...you don't really have to do anything.
When the divorce is finalized, or before that time, if you receive orders from the court, do what the court order tells you to do.
When there is a court order that determines their allocation, turn them over to his lawyer, or whatever the court order says, and get a receipt.
You're done.
TC
The guy's wife asked you to take possession of their guns residing in their communal house for safe keeping because of your wife's potential ownership interest and history in the case.
The wife has the right to do that, and now, technically speaking, your wife has possession.
The guy wants his guns back...fine, but the guns are potential community property until otherwise decreed.
You might want to let the court know that you have them, and as a friend of the court, intend to keep them safe awaiting a decision made by the court as to their final disposition...or not...you don't really have to do anything.
When the divorce is finalized, or before that time, if you receive orders from the court, do what the court order tells you to do.
When there is a court order that determines their allocation, turn them over to his lawyer, or whatever the court order says, and get a receipt.
You're done.
TC
big mike 2121
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2010
- Messages
- 167
The guns are registered in YOUR wifes name, they are in YOURs and HERs house. whats the problem. anybody ask questions, break out the ffl papers and show who purchased. Nothing ex can do. Worried that he will resond violently, put restraining order on his ***.
Thanks for the replies so far guys! I knew this could be a good, reputable source for opinions on how to handle this and this is why i love this site and those that come here!
After really pondering on this for the entire day really I think it boils down to what ever the law says. Possession is 9/10ths the law and that is actually true. We have in our possession 2 guns that my wife bought and are in her name. After doing more reading I agree that the decree has no bearing on who the guns belong to until a change of possession is legally done by way of a FFL. He has the burden of proof that the guns are his and that he can legally posses them.
I am not nervous about him trying to take any action against me or my wife because he does know i wont miss. He knows I am always on high alert and ready to protect my family at any and all costs. He hasn't even approached us about the guns yet. It was his new wife (soon to be X??) that contacted us again this morning saying something may be on the horizon and he may want the guns back. I simply told her that as long as he can legally have them put in his name then he will get them back, until then, they stay where they are till the law tells me otherwise.
Personally I want to take them and sell them to the local pawn shop. If he wants them then he can go buy them legally. I will take the money and buy a scope for my stepsons gun that he needs badly. Lets see him throw a fit to his son getting a new scope! That way we have no link to him having the guns and something good will come of them. I however will make sure they are ours to sell first.
They are going to court tomorrow. I will see where and how the dust settles and then will let you all know what the outcome is and where we stand.
BTW the guy is as i described, he has been arrested several times for fighting, drugs, public intoxication, domestic violence, ect, ect, ect. I dont think there is a day that goes by that my wife doesn't thank the good lord for putting her in my path and getting her away from the ***!
After really pondering on this for the entire day really I think it boils down to what ever the law says. Possession is 9/10ths the law and that is actually true. We have in our possession 2 guns that my wife bought and are in her name. After doing more reading I agree that the decree has no bearing on who the guns belong to until a change of possession is legally done by way of a FFL. He has the burden of proof that the guns are his and that he can legally posses them.
I am not nervous about him trying to take any action against me or my wife because he does know i wont miss. He knows I am always on high alert and ready to protect my family at any and all costs. He hasn't even approached us about the guns yet. It was his new wife (soon to be X??) that contacted us again this morning saying something may be on the horizon and he may want the guns back. I simply told her that as long as he can legally have them put in his name then he will get them back, until then, they stay where they are till the law tells me otherwise.
Personally I want to take them and sell them to the local pawn shop. If he wants them then he can go buy them legally. I will take the money and buy a scope for my stepsons gun that he needs badly. Lets see him throw a fit to his son getting a new scope! That way we have no link to him having the guns and something good will come of them. I however will make sure they are ours to sell first.
They are going to court tomorrow. I will see where and how the dust settles and then will let you all know what the outcome is and where we stand.
BTW the guy is as i described, he has been arrested several times for fighting, drugs, public intoxication, domestic violence, ect, ect, ect. I dont think there is a day that goes by that my wife doesn't thank the good lord for putting her in my path and getting her away from the ***!
