How to cut copper fouling???
- Thread starter bdeternv
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Frank in the Laurels
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- Jul 15, 2007
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...DANZAC !! 100% EFFECTIVE.
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
Thread 'My HBN experience and process'
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/my-hbn-experience-and-process.338753/
Decided to do a full write up on the subject if you or anyone else is interested.
The bore will be very very rough to begin with. It is not coppering up due to how smooth it is. Mike, I do know what you are speaking of as I cast my own bore laps and make my own lapping compounds. bdeternv's barrel is pretty rough.
Tubbs bullets will sure do some serious lapping of the bore and will for sure extend the amount of the leade, used as a last resort by me.
Since we see the tops of the lands are loaded with copper, not down in the groove, I feel that the barrel may have the potential to clean up well. bdeternv's success will come with frequent cleanings down to bare metal.
LDHunter
Well-Known Member
As usual I don't go with the "common knowledge" crowd on most subjects and bore cleaning is one of them.
Fast cleaning a barrel with an ammonia based copper solvent will get the job done if carbon and powder fouling is removed first.
I know very few people will believe me but good old Hoppe's #9 will get the job done right down to bare metal if you're not in a hurry but once carbon fouling becomes an issue and it can in heavily used barrels then Iosso has been my go to but in over 50 years of shooting it's almost never been necessary since I rarely shoot more than 20 rounds without a thorough cleaning.
Just let the Hoppes soak overnight after a good cleaning to remove powder fouling and in the morning you'll find that greenish bluish color on your first patch. I usually stand the rifle muzzle down in a corner with an absorbent rag under it. Sometimes with very rough barrels it might take a couple or three overnight sessions.
Hoppe's is so mild it can be used as a gun oil and will not harm your bore or any other part of your gun but it doesn't have much of a lubricant type of property.
So let the nay sayers jump my case but I just don't have the time or energy to make sure that I get ALL the aggressive bore cleaners out of my bore each time I use it and you really need to remove it ALL!
Another thought I haven't seen mentioned here is being absolutely sure to flush out ALL copper solvents (even Hoppe's) from your bronze brushes or they'll quickly be ruined as the copper solvent keeps working on them. I use WD-40 to spray my bronze brushes off after each use and before putting them away and it get's rid of all the nasties that accumulate including solvents.
Fast cleaning a barrel with an ammonia based copper solvent will get the job done if carbon and powder fouling is removed first.
I know very few people will believe me but good old Hoppe's #9 will get the job done right down to bare metal if you're not in a hurry but once carbon fouling becomes an issue and it can in heavily used barrels then Iosso has been my go to but in over 50 years of shooting it's almost never been necessary since I rarely shoot more than 20 rounds without a thorough cleaning.
Just let the Hoppes soak overnight after a good cleaning to remove powder fouling and in the morning you'll find that greenish bluish color on your first patch. I usually stand the rifle muzzle down in a corner with an absorbent rag under it. Sometimes with very rough barrels it might take a couple or three overnight sessions.
Hoppe's is so mild it can be used as a gun oil and will not harm your bore or any other part of your gun but it doesn't have much of a lubricant type of property.
So let the nay sayers jump my case but I just don't have the time or energy to make sure that I get ALL the aggressive bore cleaners out of my bore each time I use it and you really need to remove it ALL!
Another thought I haven't seen mentioned here is being absolutely sure to flush out ALL copper solvents (even Hoppe's) from your bronze brushes or they'll quickly be ruined as the copper solvent keeps working on them. I use WD-40 to spray my bronze brushes off after each use and before putting them away and it get's rid of all the nasties that accumulate including solvents.
AnesthesiaMD
Well-Known Member
This!
BillLarson
Well-Known Member
Sweets 7.62... and finish lap leaving a choke...
bdeternv
Member
I'm not exactly sure, but I shot 5 minimum charge weight sighting in bullets, and 10 round ladder test. I did the standard barrel break in cleanings. Shoot-clean for first 5 shots then clean after 3 shots until ladder finished. The ladder showed relatively tight shot placement. I went back with 5 sets of 3 shot charges to check for a powder charge. I noticed that my groups were very erratic (i know that some will/should be…). I cleaned the rifle when I got home in my usual manner per Bore Tech's recommendations. I bought a bore scope because I wasn't sure what was going on, and I found this. Bore Tech Eliminator has always done great for me or I thought so at least, so I went back and scoped 4 other rifles of mine to verify my cleaning skills and found little copper fouling in them. Long story short, 30 shots with 8 cleanings focused on first 15 shots and 1 cleaning after 30 shots total. Btw, Bore Tech copper cleaner was absolutely useless against this copper. Eliminator cut more than the copper cleaner, but the best results of the three were the Montana X-Treme copper killer.
I just started using Thurro Clean, and this is a great product.
There are products that do about the same job:
Flitz bore cleaner, liquid Green, no smell
Montana Extreme Copper Cream, no smell, white liquid
Flitz
Regular Grey Jb
I use all of these on badly fouled barrels on punch type jags with patches. If fouling persists, then go to an Iosso or Montana Extreme plastic brush, short stroking back and forth concentrating on problem areas.
In the very worst of cases, I will scrub with a Worn bronze bristle brush with a patch wrapped around it, and also wind Fine Bronze wool in the worn brush and apply the above very, very mild abrasives. This technique never scratches the finest SS barrels as seen under magnification.
The worst of cases get the JB Bore Bright(Red), used on patches with punch type of jag.
I have seen some new cut rifle barrels of late that are just horrible both in the groove and on top of the lands.
Keith Glascow, Winning in the Wind is a champion F Class shooter. He has made some great videos of removing hard carbon on YouTube.
What ever chemicals or application method you use, a Teslong bore scope will teach you to be your own expert.
There are products that do about the same job:
Flitz bore cleaner, liquid Green, no smell
Montana Extreme Copper Cream, no smell, white liquid
Flitz
Regular Grey Jb
I use all of these on badly fouled barrels on punch type jags with patches. If fouling persists, then go to an Iosso or Montana Extreme plastic brush, short stroking back and forth concentrating on problem areas.
In the very worst of cases, I will scrub with a Worn bronze bristle brush with a patch wrapped around it, and also wind Fine Bronze wool in the worn brush and apply the above very, very mild abrasives. This technique never scratches the finest SS barrels as seen under magnification.
The worst of cases get the JB Bore Bright(Red), used on patches with punch type of jag.
I have seen some new cut rifle barrels of late that are just horrible both in the groove and on top of the lands.
Keith Glascow, Winning in the Wind is a champion F Class shooter. He has made some great videos of removing hard carbon on YouTube.
What ever chemicals or application method you use, a Teslong bore scope will teach you to be your own expert.
PApa Black
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2012
- Messages
- 422
I've used the Tubb's Final finish loaded and hand loaded a few callibers on new and old barrels with very good results:
www.davidtubb.com
FinalFinish® & FinalFinish® TMS Loaded Ammo
By using David Tubb's FinalFinish & FinalFinish TMS Loaded Ammo, you will experience better accuracy, reduced fouling and easier barrel clean up.
www.davidtubb.com
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Whether factory or aftermarket, I break in every barrel with 10shts of Tubb FF.
Every ~250shts are followed with 5shts of Tubb TMS.
This provides a perfect surface profile for reduced copper fouling.
It doesn't hurt anything, provided you don't go crazy with it.
There is no such thing as danzac today. This was WS2 marketed as danzac decades ago.
I know, because I used WS2 before it was ever advertised as danzac.
WS2 is the perfect universal fouling, so it makes the perfect dry pre-fouling.
It also cleans out/replaces easily, and does not affect MV.
Never use Bore Bright or Flitz polish in a bore. It would only serve to degrade good lapping.
The J-B non-embedding cleaner provides a similar lap to the best. That's what you want.
Don't fall for any polishing gimmicks.
Every ~250shts are followed with 5shts of Tubb TMS.
This provides a perfect surface profile for reduced copper fouling.
It doesn't hurt anything, provided you don't go crazy with it.
There is no such thing as danzac today. This was WS2 marketed as danzac decades ago.
I know, because I used WS2 before it was ever advertised as danzac.
WS2 is the perfect universal fouling, so it makes the perfect dry pre-fouling.
It also cleans out/replaces easily, and does not affect MV.
Never use Bore Bright or Flitz polish in a bore. It would only serve to degrade good lapping.
The J-B non-embedding cleaner provides a similar lap to the best. That's what you want.
Don't fall for any polishing gimmicks.
I've never understood how a flexible bronze brush that is softer than steel and the bullets is going to ruin the bore. I guess that button they pulled down the bore to make riflings just ruined the barrel.
