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The BEST way to kill Elk
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<blockquote data-quote="Sako7STW" data-source="post: 565101" data-attributes="member: 2112"><p>Since my post spurred this thread I thought I would copy in the conversation from another thread.</p><p></p><p>Originally Posted by HAMMERHAND View Post</p><p>Rich, I'm sorry that this happened to you. This is a terrible way to be humbled.</p><p>Have you had good luck with soft tissue shots (lungs, lower chest, etc.) at long range on elk?? I've either shot elk or have seen elk shot in the ribs / lungs at various ranges from point blank to 800 yards with nosler ballistic tips, partitions, accubonds, sst's, bear claws, bergers, sierra MK's, etc. and not a single one of them provided me with evidence that they were adequate for the purpose of quickly and humanely dispatching an elk. I know alot of guys subscribe to the theory of intense soft tissue trauma in long range shooting, which may work for things like deer and antelope, but I've witnessed a much higher failure rate in this type of shooting in an animal who can run for miles on 1/2 of a single lung functioning.</p><p>I shot a 4 point bull in Colorado one year that we saw in muzzle-loader season (late august) that had obviously been wounded by a bowhunter, and I killed it in 4th rifle season (mid-november). It came limping by me, and I dispatched it, and I called the game warden. The game warden issued me a tag for it, but not before opening it up to discover an 11" chunk of carbon-fiber arrow with a broken 4-blade broadhead inside. One lung was completely crispy green and black with no function...sounding like a paper bag crunching, and the other lung was almost 2/3rds gangrenous and filled with fluid. No way he would have made it through the winter, but he made it 2 1/2 months with that type of injury.</p><p>Having witnessed that, and also having shot plenty of elk through the lungs leaving holes you could fit a baseball through and watch them run for a half-mile I now subscribe to a different school of elk killing. I either have the ability with gun and bullet to completely break both shoulders / major bone structure, or I don't shoot.</p><p>I'd like to get an idea of what most guys are doing when it comes to ELK specifically at long ranges. I understand something in the 300 grain category could be valuable for such a task, and I also understand smaller caliber weapons with frangible bullets hitting an animal at the terminus of the spine and shoulder causing instant death as well, but you're also talking about a coffee-can sized area to hit as well. Where I hunt we simply cannot risk an elk running even 500 yards because it enters private land, or runs off into a wilderness canyon where the retrieve will be a gruelling technical climb to get the meat out. The two long range bulls I have killed were both high double-shoulders and single shot kills with Barnes TTSX. I've had the opportunity to shoot at some bulls farther away, knowing full well that I could hit body, but not both shoulders specifically, so I opted not to shoot.</p><p></p><p>My response:</p><p>My family and I have ALWAYS went for the boiler room and NEVER the shoulder. I have never seen an elk with 2 blown up shoulders or even one for that matter not have the majority of the shoulders meat ruined. We have lost 2 elk in 81 total combined years of hunting Elk. If I would include my extended family we are now talking in the 200 years range and to my knowledge the number of lost elk would not be much more than a handful. That is a TON of dead Elk over those years that were successfully taken with heart/lung shots. Thats also a huge amount of meat that didnt get ruined because of deliberate shoulder shots. Not saying we never hit a shoulder because we have and we all get mad as heck when we do. While I can see where shoulder shooting has a legitimate purpose, I for one would rather have the meat. To me hunting is for the meat first, horns second. If your that worried about grounding them on the spot, shoot em in the head and save your meat. Elk have heads that are as big as the boiler room of a decent deer or Antelope. When it comes down to hunter ethics there are so many gray areas and to me shoulder shooting and ruining the meat is for sure in the gray area. You have to use the right bullet for the type of shooting you do. Boiler room shots are not as effective when using a bullet designed for the shoulder shot and visa-versa. Just my .02. ......that was last night.</p><p></p><p>Now I must regress some....because I wasn't as specific in my post as i should have been. In our experience the weight retaining, and deep penetration/pass through design bullets can be a poor choice for shooting behind the front shoulder (Boiler room). I really did not mean that anyone that shoots for the shoulder is unethical. I firmly believe an Elk cant live with no heart or no lungs or no brain. Call me crazy, I dunno LOL. I can see where at long range the shoulder is a huge target zone thus greatly increasing your odds of meat in the freezer. That is a great thing. But lets examine this a little. </p><p></p><p>When it comes to hunting we all have a responsibility to kill the animal as quickly and humanely as possible and really, to eat the animal as well. So we all on here are here because we love to shoot long range. Does that mean we have to? Is it ethical to pass a shot on a bull at 200 yards and wait for him to reach 800 before we shoot. No it is not period! You should take the shot offering the highest odds possible.</p><p></p><p>So when you have the perfect opportunity to take a a boiler room shot and not unnecessarily ruin the meat, IMHO you should. I take my shots to try and retain as much meat as possible. Thats where shoulder shooting to me is in the grey area. At times I can see where it is useful and even important, but if you dont have to shoot the shoulder and do....at the risk of sounding almost tree hugger, well I believe your doing a disservice to the animal that you took the life of. It is not necessary and it is wasteful. If you are only getting a few OZ. of meat off of the front shoulder like some have said, you need a different butcher. We do our own butchering and there is a ton of great meat on the front shoulders of an Elk. We use the shoulder meat for things like strips for Fajita's and stir fry, or cut chunks for stews and now are bottling the meat as well which is EXCELLENT. Now an Antelope, well that's a different story. I still wont shoot for the front shoulder at closer ranges but if I hit one there, it certainly isnt much of a loss.</p><p></p><p>So what is the best way to kill an Elk? Well IMHO it is one shot one kill. Take the shot you are most comfortable with. My point in my response is to maybe help some to remember that the shoulder shot may not be needed and you have a chance at that much more great meat if you move those crosshairs a few inches.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sako7STW, post: 565101, member: 2112"] Since my post spurred this thread I thought I would copy in the conversation from another thread. Originally Posted by HAMMERHAND View Post Rich, I'm sorry that this happened to you. This is a terrible way to be humbled. Have you had good luck with soft tissue shots (lungs, lower chest, etc.) at long range on elk?? I've either shot elk or have seen elk shot in the ribs / lungs at various ranges from point blank to 800 yards with nosler ballistic tips, partitions, accubonds, sst's, bear claws, bergers, sierra MK's, etc. and not a single one of them provided me with evidence that they were adequate for the purpose of quickly and humanely dispatching an elk. I know alot of guys subscribe to the theory of intense soft tissue trauma in long range shooting, which may work for things like deer and antelope, but I've witnessed a much higher failure rate in this type of shooting in an animal who can run for miles on 1/2 of a single lung functioning. I shot a 4 point bull in Colorado one year that we saw in muzzle-loader season (late august) that had obviously been wounded by a bowhunter, and I killed it in 4th rifle season (mid-november). It came limping by me, and I dispatched it, and I called the game warden. The game warden issued me a tag for it, but not before opening it up to discover an 11" chunk of carbon-fiber arrow with a broken 4-blade broadhead inside. One lung was completely crispy green and black with no function...sounding like a paper bag crunching, and the other lung was almost 2/3rds gangrenous and filled with fluid. No way he would have made it through the winter, but he made it 2 1/2 months with that type of injury. Having witnessed that, and also having shot plenty of elk through the lungs leaving holes you could fit a baseball through and watch them run for a half-mile I now subscribe to a different school of elk killing. I either have the ability with gun and bullet to completely break both shoulders / major bone structure, or I don't shoot. I'd like to get an idea of what most guys are doing when it comes to ELK specifically at long ranges. I understand something in the 300 grain category could be valuable for such a task, and I also understand smaller caliber weapons with frangible bullets hitting an animal at the terminus of the spine and shoulder causing instant death as well, but you're also talking about a coffee-can sized area to hit as well. Where I hunt we simply cannot risk an elk running even 500 yards because it enters private land, or runs off into a wilderness canyon where the retrieve will be a gruelling technical climb to get the meat out. The two long range bulls I have killed were both high double-shoulders and single shot kills with Barnes TTSX. I've had the opportunity to shoot at some bulls farther away, knowing full well that I could hit body, but not both shoulders specifically, so I opted not to shoot. My response: My family and I have ALWAYS went for the boiler room and NEVER the shoulder. I have never seen an elk with 2 blown up shoulders or even one for that matter not have the majority of the shoulders meat ruined. We have lost 2 elk in 81 total combined years of hunting Elk. If I would include my extended family we are now talking in the 200 years range and to my knowledge the number of lost elk would not be much more than a handful. That is a TON of dead Elk over those years that were successfully taken with heart/lung shots. Thats also a huge amount of meat that didnt get ruined because of deliberate shoulder shots. Not saying we never hit a shoulder because we have and we all get mad as heck when we do. While I can see where shoulder shooting has a legitimate purpose, I for one would rather have the meat. To me hunting is for the meat first, horns second. If your that worried about grounding them on the spot, shoot em in the head and save your meat. Elk have heads that are as big as the boiler room of a decent deer or Antelope. When it comes down to hunter ethics there are so many gray areas and to me shoulder shooting and ruining the meat is for sure in the gray area. You have to use the right bullet for the type of shooting you do. Boiler room shots are not as effective when using a bullet designed for the shoulder shot and visa-versa. Just my .02. ......that was last night. Now I must regress some....because I wasn't as specific in my post as i should have been. In our experience the weight retaining, and deep penetration/pass through design bullets can be a poor choice for shooting behind the front shoulder (Boiler room). I really did not mean that anyone that shoots for the shoulder is unethical. I firmly believe an Elk cant live with no heart or no lungs or no brain. Call me crazy, I dunno LOL. I can see where at long range the shoulder is a huge target zone thus greatly increasing your odds of meat in the freezer. That is a great thing. But lets examine this a little. When it comes to hunting we all have a responsibility to kill the animal as quickly and humanely as possible and really, to eat the animal as well. So we all on here are here because we love to shoot long range. Does that mean we have to? Is it ethical to pass a shot on a bull at 200 yards and wait for him to reach 800 before we shoot. No it is not period! You should take the shot offering the highest odds possible. So when you have the perfect opportunity to take a a boiler room shot and not unnecessarily ruin the meat, IMHO you should. I take my shots to try and retain as much meat as possible. Thats where shoulder shooting to me is in the grey area. At times I can see where it is useful and even important, but if you dont have to shoot the shoulder and do....at the risk of sounding almost tree hugger, well I believe your doing a disservice to the animal that you took the life of. It is not necessary and it is wasteful. If you are only getting a few OZ. of meat off of the front shoulder like some have said, you need a different butcher. We do our own butchering and there is a ton of great meat on the front shoulders of an Elk. We use the shoulder meat for things like strips for Fajita's and stir fry, or cut chunks for stews and now are bottling the meat as well which is EXCELLENT. Now an Antelope, well that's a different story. I still wont shoot for the front shoulder at closer ranges but if I hit one there, it certainly isnt much of a loss. So what is the best way to kill an Elk? Well IMHO it is one shot one kill. Take the shot you are most comfortable with. My point in my response is to maybe help some to remember that the shoulder shot may not be needed and you have a chance at that much more great meat if you move those crosshairs a few inches. [/QUOTE]
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