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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
TARGET BULLETS ARE NOT HUNTING BULLETS!
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<blockquote data-quote="fordy" data-source="post: 3057944" data-attributes="member: 120504"><p>Gday outdrmn please give me a little grace on the following as I'm having a break from glassing on my hunting property & the following is off my memory so I'll most likely get some wrong as my memory isn't what it once was </p><p></p><p>Yep you've got it & sorry I don't know how to write properly that explains in a simple laid out format for people to understand , my lingo is hard just ask me <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="😜" title="Winking face with tongue :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61c.png" data-shortname=":stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:" /><img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤣" title="Rolling on the floor laughing :rofl:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f923.png" data-shortname=":rofl:" /></p><p></p><p>I'm also patient & just go about showing actual results . You sir have picked it up quicker than a bloke who I chat to on a very regular basis these days & will personally get to shake his hand in a couple weeks</p><p></p><p>We danced around the subject for around 6months before he said one word that we use now that is extremely valuable for our discussions as we are on the same page when we talk now that was probably around 4 years ago</p><p></p><p>It's not my way or his way it was the way we both understood the baseline & then move forward to get better results</p><p></p><p>& that leads into your what would fordy do lol</p><p>I await my tshirt <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤣" title="Rolling on the floor laughing :rofl:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f923.png" data-shortname=":rofl:" /><img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤣" title="Rolling on the floor laughing :rofl:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f923.png" data-shortname=":rofl:" />that's a classic & funny thankyou <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="👍" title="Thumbs up :thumbsup:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f44d.png" data-shortname=":thumbsup:" /></p><p></p><p>I like the 30 cal idea as opens up more options & gives us more insurance or do I dare say put a Band-Aid on things <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤔" title="Thinking face :thinking:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f914.png" data-shortname=":thinking:" /></p><p>this is also a broad statement as last year we took critters to around 1600lb with the 6.5 & surprising how effective it was but hunting buff or like ( not testing) give me my 375 h&h or RUM but the problem solver is the 500 Jeffery but man I love 375 cal even on rabbits <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="😇" title="Smiling face with halo :innocent:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f607.png" data-shortname=":innocent:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>The 7-08 I have one of those but no elk history but I'll use our samba , scrubbies ( feral cattle ) & horses basically critters in the 500-800 lb mark as 1000 lb plus critter things change & narrows one's options quite a lot imo</p><p>So that leaves us up the 175/180 gr</p><p>( I don't know a lot of the weights these days on frangible but any match king I've used are extremely erratic & I'd advise against any as those pills although I've only shot around 1/2 dozen types of MK I've had way to many train wrecks & open tip did nothing anneal did nothing it's a real poor game pill imo ) the style like the frangible pills these will hold enough velocity for some distance above these weights if one was to use a bigger pill I'd advise not to go with what they recommend on twist rate I'd be a minimum of one faster ( this is regardless of caliber or style /brand )</p><p></p><p>Velocity impacts below 2000 you see time to tip increase a fair bit </p><p>The old amax I used for a longtime over many critters but mainly 30 cal and showed the need for weight once critter size increases like I've been putting up in my previous posts but imo the best low velocity pill that I've seen & nothing yet that matches them ( between 1200/ 1400 I don't like @ all 1400 /1600 limit shot angle possibilities & main boiler room behind shoulder gave best results to me</p><p>1600 /1800 you see better results & basically the minimum I'd take in a pinch but 2000 things got way better 2200/2600 was the sweet spot & now your talking as long as you've got the weight behind it</p><p>& the 7-08 you really can't get it high enough but try & stay off big bone ( especially knuckle )</p><p>Bergers I'll stay clear of in 7mm as no history with them but on the fairly good numbers I had with the 30 cal if you go that way I would advise highly to open / clean those hp but sometime back I asked on if people still did that & I got the reply no need as the hp cavity crushes & works that way </p><p>I'll stay clear of that as I don't know & need testing as to me @ low impacts I think you will get erratic results <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤷♂️" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" /></p><p>The ATip I've got no idea & recently due to a lovely gentleman sending me a pm ( first good data I've seen on this pill terminally of how it is working ) I now have a base to work off & I would advise caution on that pill </p><p>various others I've used but more suited to sub 300lb critters & got one aussie frangible to test for my mate along with that ATip so that's as much information I have on this line so far </p><p></p><p>The next line to consider is the bonded</p><p>& these I'd be happier to drop back to the 150/160 weight & I've only used the 140 accubond that was found to be somewhat wanting a bit more like your 162eldm so assume the 150/160 would be a nice fit</p><p></p><p>I loved the 150 gr partition on the limited medium critters I took with it ( or my boys as they graduated upto the rums & the 7-08 kinda put on the back burner somewhat & results are more consistent with the 30 cal )</p><p>Stay clear of the 140 gr partition , heavier partition I'd like to know but no use with them but if the real heavy once again a extra twist I would recommend </p><p></p><p>Rhino bullets make a few that kinda work like the tbbc only limited data on those in 7mm but the 150 working better than 140 & no use of the tbbc in 7mm so comparing across calibers has downfalls so be interesting to test </p><p></p><p>Mushroom monos</p><p>Stay clear of the 160 tsx in the 7-08 as it is erratic , one time it will give great penertration next shallow this was replicated on 40 something kills in 2 batches so I never got to the bottom of it of why ( I assume twist although it should be stable according to what we are told <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤔" title="Thinking face :thinking:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f914.png" data-shortname=":thinking:" /><img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤷♂️" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" /> ) but I don't like erratic yet here's my sons samba ( it's not a big samba but I'm so proud of that hunt with my son & why it's mounted I'm not a score hunter I'm a memory hunter ) & recovered pill with the 160 only made 10.5 inches & pill was stuck in the neck /shoulder vertebrae & was tumbling in a arc @ around the 4 inch mark till it stopped in the vertebrae ( not straight line so we got lucky ) yet so called perfect mushroom ( meplat is critical here & a pattern I've seen on mushroom overall 1 or 2 expanded caliber means squat it's the shape ) hence the extra twist once again as my recommendation impact was 2400 ish</p><p>[ATTACH=full]552413[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]552532[/ATTACH]</p><p>& went to the 150 tsx with the 140ttsx producing the most consistent results out of those 3</p><p></p><p>Now a fair few other mushroom monos on the market today but the only other 7mm one I used was the etip which I'd stay clear of that but only a box of those & maybe 10 kills in 7mm & more with 30 cal</p><p></p><p>The shedding mono I've had no medium crittrrs in 7mm on those on those size critters & I'll refrain from recommending any of those ( I will be labeled most likely anyway<img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤪" title="Zany face :zany_face:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f92a.png" data-shortname=":zany_face:" /> )& I'll say do your research on these & this in the mono world has proven to be the most consistent but a balanced pill like with all of the above is the first part we need to look @ & you can go a touch lighter than the mushroom mono or even same weight doesn't worry me but less weight than c&c</p><p>A couple different styles of shedding some shed petals sideways real quick some follow the shank & some follow for a bit then radiate outwards meplat of shank is important</p><p>I personally like petals to follow the shank as the wide ones are great for broadside you start getting angles involved & then performance drops off</p><p></p><p>Velocity wise the shedding operates @ a lower good working velocity impact & on average 300 fps lower than the mushroom</p><p>Personally I don't like below 2000/2100 or a mushroom 2300/2400 ( that's broad as ea pill behaves differently even within the same company ) yes they will kill but I like to get it done with more consistency hence bandaids & today I very rarely get down that low of impacts & my impact to tip has improved</p><p></p><p>The above has left out mechanical broadhead situations occurring, nose over , snapped / bent tips , plugged hp , caliber to length ratio etc</p><p>As that is a whole new chapter on what pills need to avoid to become efficient /consistent </p><p>Nothing is immune but some are definitely better than others</p><p></p><p>Well that's my siesta time gone got a nudge from the kids I teach we better go get set up before the deer start moving for the arvo </p><p></p><p>Using the 6.5 for fallow deer for them & not a target bullet nor a hunting bullet as once we get this pill in enough critters I'll then know if it's a good or bad bullet for the task ahead </p><p></p><p>That's how a bullet to me needs to be assessed not on it's naming <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="😇" title="Smiling face with halo :innocent:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f607.png" data-shortname=":innocent:" /><img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤫" title="Shushing face :shushing_face:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f92b.png" data-shortname=":shushing_face:" /></p><p></p><p>Hope that helps</p><p>Cheers</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="fordy, post: 3057944, member: 120504"] Gday outdrmn please give me a little grace on the following as I’m having a break from glassing on my hunting property & the following is off my memory so I’ll most likely get some wrong as my memory isn’t what it once was Yep you've got it & sorry I don't know how to write properly that explains in a simple laid out format for people to understand , my lingo is hard just ask me 😜🤣 I'm also patient & just go about showing actual results . You sir have picked it up quicker than a bloke who I chat to on a very regular basis these days & will personally get to shake his hand in a couple weeks We danced around the subject for around 6months before he said one word that we use now that is extremely valuable for our discussions as we are on the same page when we talk now that was probably around 4 years ago It's not my way or his way it was the way we both understood the baseline & then move forward to get better results & that leads into your what would fordy do lol I await my tshirt 🤣🤣that's a classic & funny thankyou 👍 I like the 30 cal idea as opens up more options & gives us more insurance or do I dare say put a Band-Aid on things 🤔 this is also a broad statement as last year we took critters to around 1600lb with the 6.5 & surprising how effective it was but hunting buff or like ( not testing) give me my 375 h&h or RUM but the problem solver is the 500 Jeffery but man I love 375 cal even on rabbits 😇 The 7-08 I have one of those but no elk history but I'll use our samba , scrubbies ( feral cattle ) & horses basically critters in the 500-800 lb mark as 1000 lb plus critter things change & narrows one's options quite a lot imo So that leaves us up the 175/180 gr ( I don't know a lot of the weights these days on frangible but any match king I've used are extremely erratic & I'd advise against any as those pills although I've only shot around 1/2 dozen types of MK I've had way to many train wrecks & open tip did nothing anneal did nothing it's a real poor game pill imo ) the style like the frangible pills these will hold enough velocity for some distance above these weights if one was to use a bigger pill I'd advise not to go with what they recommend on twist rate I'd be a minimum of one faster ( this is regardless of caliber or style /brand ) Velocity impacts below 2000 you see time to tip increase a fair bit The old amax I used for a longtime over many critters but mainly 30 cal and showed the need for weight once critter size increases like I’ve been putting up in my previous posts but imo the best low velocity pill that I've seen & nothing yet that matches them ( between 1200/ 1400 I don't like @ all 1400 /1600 limit shot angle possibilities & main boiler room behind shoulder gave best results to me 1600 /1800 you see better results & basically the minimum I'd take in a pinch but 2000 things got way better 2200/2600 was the sweet spot & now your talking as long as you've got the weight behind it & the 7-08 you really can't get it high enough but try & stay off big bone ( especially knuckle ) Bergers I’ll stay clear of in 7mm as no history with them but on the fairly good numbers I had with the 30 cal if you go that way I would advise highly to open / clean those hp but sometime back I asked on if people still did that & I got the reply no need as the hp cavity crushes & works that way I’ll stay clear of that as I don’t know & need testing as to me @ low impacts I think you will get erratic results 🤷♂️ The ATip I’ve got no idea & recently due to a lovely gentleman sending me a pm ( first good data I’ve seen on this pill terminally of how it is working ) I now have a base to work off & I would advise caution on that pill various others I’ve used but more suited to sub 300lb critters & got one aussie frangible to test for my mate along with that ATip so that’s as much information I have on this line so far The next line to consider is the bonded & these I'd be happier to drop back to the 150/160 weight & I've only used the 140 accubond that was found to be somewhat wanting a bit more like your 162eldm so assume the 150/160 would be a nice fit I loved the 150 gr partition on the limited medium critters I took with it ( or my boys as they graduated upto the rums & the 7-08 kinda put on the back burner somewhat & results are more consistent with the 30 cal ) Stay clear of the 140 gr partition , heavier partition I'd like to know but no use with them but if the real heavy once again a extra twist I would recommend Rhino bullets make a few that kinda work like the tbbc only limited data on those in 7mm but the 150 working better than 140 & no use of the tbbc in 7mm so comparing across calibers has downfalls so be interesting to test Mushroom monos Stay clear of the 160 tsx in the 7-08 as it is erratic , one time it will give great penertration next shallow this was replicated on 40 something kills in 2 batches so I never got to the bottom of it of why ( I assume twist although it should be stable according to what we are told 🤔🤷♂️ ) but I don't like erratic yet here's my sons samba ( it’s not a big samba but I’m so proud of that hunt with my son & why it’s mounted I’m not a score hunter I’m a memory hunter ) & recovered pill with the 160 only made 10.5 inches & pill was stuck in the neck /shoulder vertebrae & was tumbling in a arc @ around the 4 inch mark till it stopped in the vertebrae ( not straight line so we got lucky ) yet so called perfect mushroom ( meplat is critical here & a pattern I've seen on mushroom overall 1 or 2 expanded caliber means squat it's the shape ) hence the extra twist once again as my recommendation impact was 2400 ish [ATTACH type="full" alt="image.jpg"]552413[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full" alt="image.jpg"]552532[/ATTACH] & went to the 150 tsx with the 140ttsx producing the most consistent results out of those 3 Now a fair few other mushroom monos on the market today but the only other 7mm one I used was the etip which I'd stay clear of that but only a box of those & maybe 10 kills in 7mm & more with 30 cal The shedding mono I've had no medium crittrrs in 7mm on those on those size critters & I'll refrain from recommending any of those ( I will be labeled most likely anyway🤪 )& I'll say do your research on these & this in the mono world has proven to be the most consistent but a balanced pill like with all of the above is the first part we need to look @ & you can go a touch lighter than the mushroom mono or even same weight doesn't worry me but less weight than c&c A couple different styles of shedding some shed petals sideways real quick some follow the shank & some follow for a bit then radiate outwards meplat of shank is important I personally like petals to follow the shank as the wide ones are great for broadside you start getting angles involved & then performance drops off Velocity wise the shedding operates @ a lower good working velocity impact & on average 300 fps lower than the mushroom Personally I don't like below 2000/2100 or a mushroom 2300/2400 ( that’s broad as ea pill behaves differently even within the same company ) yes they will kill but I like to get it done with more consistency hence bandaids & today I very rarely get down that low of impacts & my impact to tip has improved The above has left out mechanical broadhead situations occurring, nose over , snapped / bent tips , plugged hp , caliber to length ratio etc As that is a whole new chapter on what pills need to avoid to become efficient /consistent Nothing is immune but some are definitely better than others Well that’s my siesta time gone got a nudge from the kids I teach we better go get set up before the deer start moving for the arvo Using the 6.5 for fallow deer for them & not a target bullet nor a hunting bullet as once we get this pill in enough critters I’ll then know if it’s a good or bad bullet for the task ahead That’s how a bullet to me needs to be assessed not on it’s naming 😇🤫 Hope that helps Cheers [/QUOTE]
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