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Remington under fire
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<blockquote data-quote="J E Custom" data-source="post: 435447" data-attributes="member: 2736"><p>In my earlier Post I stated that it was based on years of use and that I saw or had no</p><p>problems with this trigger.(I used a few more words than that though).</p><p></p><p>After reading many reports and watching every video that I could, plus all of the lawsuits</p><p>that are available, I decided to do some testing of my own and answer the question In</p><p>my mind. (I have no intent to change other peoples minds on this matter just settle it</p><p>in my mind).</p><p></p><p>There are some very emotional issues because of personal injuries or even death so I </p><p>avoided this side of it and I understand the position of some on this and feel great sympathy</p><p>for there loss. It is hard for me to comprehend hurting or loosing someone at your own </p><p>hands.</p><p></p><p>So first I sorted out all of my take off triggers to find the ones in question. I have quite an</p><p>assortment because I do not adjust any trigger. If it does not suit me I replace it with a </p><p>custom/ after market one that is pre set by the manufacture. (The ones that can be set</p><p>and come with a 6 pound lawyer I just pass on messing with them.</p><p></p><p>With that said I messed with all of these (On an action with no barrel and some on a</p><p>complete rifle that was loaded with a snap cap to duplicate a loaded round situation</p><p>and not alter the function of the rifle.</p><p></p><p>First I measured all of the non tampered with triggers sear engagements and found that </p><p>they were .030 to .041 Not .020 as stated in one of the reports. I had 7 that were set at </p><p>the factory and not altered.</p><p></p><p>Next I checked the over travel adjustment and found them to be very close to recomended </p><p>adjustments. I have seen videos of people loosening this adjustment all of the way off.</p><p>(Note: If you do this the connector does/may not return to its proper place and this is a </p><p>big problem).</p><p></p><p>I questioned the use of a separate piece on the trigger and found the connector to be much</p><p>harder than the trigger and this makes good sense to me because I have seen triggers break </p><p>because they were brittle and the connector needs to be hard to resist ware. Some triggers </p><p>have a hardened piece soldered to the trigger where it engages the sear.</p><p></p><p>Next I tried to duplicate the failures and found that the trigger would not malfunction</p><p>as they were (This was the position that the law suites took when asked to make the </p><p>trigger fail ).</p><p></p><p>I also adjusted each of the adjustments and I could make the trigger fail in all of the </p><p>conditions mentioned.</p><p></p><p>If I adjusted the over travel to far back I found that the trigger pull weight changed </p><p>dramatically and under worst case scenarios could fire with any movement of the </p><p>bolt or safety. this situation changed the sear engagement just like moving the sear </p><p>adjustment to engage less.</p><p></p><p>Next I found that If I moved the sear below minimum required it felt really crisp but </p><p>was unpredictable. (NO Big Surprise).</p><p></p><p>The same was true if I adjusted the trigger pull to light The trigger would fail most of </p><p>the time when the bolt was closed or the safety was switched off.</p><p></p><p>There was a lot of references about "Tricking the safety" and I could not make a properly </p><p>set trigger go off as Remington stated. (I did not have enough numbers statistically to find </p><p>the one that would/could).</p><p></p><p>If I adjusted the trigger improperly I could make it happen. My question on this matter is </p><p>"WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO TRICK A SAFETY". I assume it is to allow for murphy's</p><p>law. </p><p></p><p>There were many references to dirt and debris causing problems if it was present, and I</p><p>100% agree. But it is not just Remington triggers that are effected by this condition.</p><p></p><p>I would ask that No one consider this post a reason to by/use Remington products if they</p><p>are unsure. this was for my benefit only and my findings are not very scientific.</p><p></p><p>I just wanted to share what I found and and that proper maintenance and adjustments </p><p>appear to be the solution to most if not all of the issues for ALL triggers.</p><p></p><p>Safety is the responsibility of the fire arm handler and has nothing to do with my findings</p><p>they were strictly mechanical.</p><p></p><p>Ultimately the courts will have the last word and rightly so.</p><p></p><p>J E CUSTOM</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="J E Custom, post: 435447, member: 2736"] In my earlier Post I stated that it was based on years of use and that I saw or had no problems with this trigger.(I used a few more words than that though). After reading many reports and watching every video that I could, plus all of the lawsuits that are available, I decided to do some testing of my own and answer the question In my mind. (I have no intent to change other peoples minds on this matter just settle it in my mind). There are some very emotional issues because of personal injuries or even death so I avoided this side of it and I understand the position of some on this and feel great sympathy for there loss. It is hard for me to comprehend hurting or loosing someone at your own hands. So first I sorted out all of my take off triggers to find the ones in question. I have quite an assortment because I do not adjust any trigger. If it does not suit me I replace it with a custom/ after market one that is pre set by the manufacture. (The ones that can be set and come with a 6 pound lawyer I just pass on messing with them. With that said I messed with all of these (On an action with no barrel and some on a complete rifle that was loaded with a snap cap to duplicate a loaded round situation and not alter the function of the rifle. First I measured all of the non tampered with triggers sear engagements and found that they were .030 to .041 Not .020 as stated in one of the reports. I had 7 that were set at the factory and not altered. Next I checked the over travel adjustment and found them to be very close to recomended adjustments. I have seen videos of people loosening this adjustment all of the way off. (Note: If you do this the connector does/may not return to its proper place and this is a big problem). I questioned the use of a separate piece on the trigger and found the connector to be much harder than the trigger and this makes good sense to me because I have seen triggers break because they were brittle and the connector needs to be hard to resist ware. Some triggers have a hardened piece soldered to the trigger where it engages the sear. Next I tried to duplicate the failures and found that the trigger would not malfunction as they were (This was the position that the law suites took when asked to make the trigger fail ). I also adjusted each of the adjustments and I could make the trigger fail in all of the conditions mentioned. If I adjusted the over travel to far back I found that the trigger pull weight changed dramatically and under worst case scenarios could fire with any movement of the bolt or safety. this situation changed the sear engagement just like moving the sear adjustment to engage less. Next I found that If I moved the sear below minimum required it felt really crisp but was unpredictable. (NO Big Surprise). The same was true if I adjusted the trigger pull to light The trigger would fail most of the time when the bolt was closed or the safety was switched off. There was a lot of references about "Tricking the safety" and I could not make a properly set trigger go off as Remington stated. (I did not have enough numbers statistically to find the one that would/could). If I adjusted the trigger improperly I could make it happen. My question on this matter is "WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO TRICK A SAFETY". I assume it is to allow for murphy's law. There were many references to dirt and debris causing problems if it was present, and I 100% agree. But it is not just Remington triggers that are effected by this condition. I would ask that No one consider this post a reason to by/use Remington products if they are unsure. this was for my benefit only and my findings are not very scientific. I just wanted to share what I found and and that proper maintenance and adjustments appear to be the solution to most if not all of the issues for ALL triggers. Safety is the responsibility of the fire arm handler and has nothing to do with my findings they were strictly mechanical. Ultimately the courts will have the last word and rightly so. J E CUSTOM [/QUOTE]
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