shortpants
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Fair enough! Sounds like you have had some good instructors in your past. My instructor is a good for nothin *******! Every time I walk in front of a mirror I see him!
Reading The Wind
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I know what you mean about holding at the longer ranges not being very precise. I dont't shoot MOA reticles, all I shoot is MIL/MIL and I love it. It doesnt get any simpler than that. The reticle has plenty of hold and there's no math involved. What you see is what you get. For example let say you shoot at a target at 800y and you miss it left by 1.5 mils. all you have to do is move the reticle 1.5 mils towards the target pull the trigger and there;s the hit. Simple.!!!
Now...as for holding at really long ranges where one seems to be holding in open space with no reference, Horus has a solution. the H58 and H59 reticle. It was made for holding. Look into it. I've shot it. it takes a little bit to get use to it but once past that , i think its good reticle for long ranges with wind.
R>
bigngreen,
i just read my reply and since it was late i'm not sure I answered your question properly.
So you're asking how can I tell what an accurate correction is after the gun has recoiled, right?
I haven't found it to be an issue. Proper position and driving the gun properly allows you to see the hit well enough to make an accurate correction. Now will the correction be accurate enough to stack rounds in a group, maybe, maybe not, depending on the shot, but that's not what we're after. We're looking for a solid hit center mass.
Also, let me ask you guys a question. You mentioned it and so did Shawn. Why do you think holding isn't accurate enough? Instead of using the center of the reticle, one used the lateral markings. What kind of reticle are you guys shooting? Do you have markings going out left and right of center?
I'm shooting an S&B with a P4F reticle.
Sorry I was tired on the previous post.
i just read my reply and since it was late i'm not sure I answered your question properly.
So you're asking how can I tell what an accurate correction is after the gun has recoiled, right?
I haven't found it to be an issue. Proper position and driving the gun properly allows you to see the hit well enough to make an accurate correction. Now will the correction be accurate enough to stack rounds in a group, maybe, maybe not, depending on the shot, but that's not what we're after. We're looking for a solid hit center mass.
Also, let me ask you guys a question. You mentioned it and so did Shawn. Why do you think holding isn't accurate enough? Instead of using the center of the reticle, one used the lateral markings. What kind of reticle are you guys shooting? Do you have markings going out left and right of center?
I'm shooting an S&B with a P4F reticle.
Sorry I was tired on the previous post.
shortpants
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I shoot the gen 2 reticle from premier with hash @ 1/2 mil and dot @ 1mil. If my math is correct my first hash would represent 8.6" at 500yds. If I had a rifle that would allow me to hold my POA and call my POI then a quick follow up shot using reticle hold would be ethical if practiced previously. At 1000 it would be different because each mark on my reticle now represents 17.2" which I would hardly call precision shooting. Basically with my reticle your holding roughly 1.75moa which most don't consider precision shooting however at short yardages is good enough for a center mass follow up. I believe what Shawn is trying to teach is a more precise way of doping the wind directed towards teaching people how to make more one shot kills. When it comes to having to make follow up shots there is good in both of your methods. Every situation is unique and you have to decide what is appropriate for any given situation.
P.S. It was me who asked the question you were trying to answer.
P.S. It was me who asked the question you were trying to answer.
Oh ok!
So you have a mil reticle? what about your knobs, are they mil too? The reason I ask is because you have mil reticle but you talk about MOA.
.1 mil is .36" at 100y so at 500 .1 mil is 1.8 inches, so .5 mils (1/2 mil) @ 500 is 9 inches.
You're talking about precision, and unless one has a reticle with .1mil hash marks I would tend to agree with you. I'm not talking about that kind of shooting. I'm talking about making a quick hit on chest size target, whether animal or otherwise.
If we're talking about very precise shooting, having all the time we need to wait for conditions to match the scope etc...etc... then we're taking about 2 different things.
IMO if that was the case, then those details should have been clarified from the beginning in the article and this conversation. I think it's an important destingtion to new shooters are trying to find their nitch. Tactical precision shooting and BR shooting are very different things and TTPs are very different. Even tactical shooting between military and LE is very different. LEO's need to be more precise than military even though their average engagements are MUCH shorter than military, but neither have the luxury to wait until conditions match the scope dial to take the shot, and more importantly if the shot is missed, it needs to be made up yesterday, and that's not happening if you are dialing in new adjustments. The same principal can be applied to hunting, if the first round is a miss, I want to make the second one as fast as possible, before the prey get's spooked and runs off. It's even more importantly is if the first hit was a bad one, the second one needs to happen right away before the wounded animal runs off and suffers needlessly.
So you have a mil reticle? what about your knobs, are they mil too? The reason I ask is because you have mil reticle but you talk about MOA.
.1 mil is .36" at 100y so at 500 .1 mil is 1.8 inches, so .5 mils (1/2 mil) @ 500 is 9 inches.
You're talking about precision, and unless one has a reticle with .1mil hash marks I would tend to agree with you. I'm not talking about that kind of shooting. I'm talking about making a quick hit on chest size target, whether animal or otherwise.
If we're talking about very precise shooting, having all the time we need to wait for conditions to match the scope etc...etc... then we're taking about 2 different things.
IMO if that was the case, then those details should have been clarified from the beginning in the article and this conversation. I think it's an important destingtion to new shooters are trying to find their nitch. Tactical precision shooting and BR shooting are very different things and TTPs are very different. Even tactical shooting between military and LE is very different. LEO's need to be more precise than military even though their average engagements are MUCH shorter than military, but neither have the luxury to wait until conditions match the scope dial to take the shot, and more importantly if the shot is missed, it needs to be made up yesterday, and that's not happening if you are dialing in new adjustments. The same principal can be applied to hunting, if the first round is a miss, I want to make the second one as fast as possible, before the prey get's spooked and runs off. It's even more importantly is if the first hit was a bad one, the second one needs to happen right away before the wounded animal runs off and suffers needlessly.
Oh ok!
So you have a mil reticle? what about your knobs, are they mil too? The reason I ask is because you have mil reticle but you talk about MOA.
.1 mil is .36" at 100y so at 500 .1 mil is 1.8 inches, so .5 mils (1/2 mil) @ 500 is 9 inches.
I my experience even with .5 mil marks one can still hold .25 (1/4) mil with good accuracy. I guess accuracy needed is based on the mission and requirements of it.
I guess you're talking about precision, and unless one has a reticle with .1mil hash marks I would tend to agree with you. I'm not talking about that kind of shooting. I'm talking about making a quick hit on chest size target, whether animal or otherwise. Even for hunting that precision isn't really required.
If we're talking about very precise shooting, having all the time we need to wait for conditions to match the scope etc...etc... then we're taking about 2 different things.
IMO if that was the case, then those details should have been clarified from the beginning in the article and this conversation. I think it's an important destingtion to new shooters are trying to find their nitch. Tactical precision shooting and BR shooting are very different things and TTPs are very different. Even tactical shooting between military and LE is very different. LEO's need to be more precise than military even though their average engagements are MUCH shorter than military, but neither have the luxury to wait until conditions match the scope dial to take the shot, and more importantly if the shot is missed, it needs to be made up yesterday, and that's not happening if you are dialing in new adjustments. The same principal can be applied to hunting, if the first round is a miss, I want to make the second one as fast as possible, before the prey get's spooked and runs off. It's even more importantly is if the first hit was a bad one, the second one needs to happen right away before the wounded animal runs off and suffers needlessly.
So you have a mil reticle? what about your knobs, are they mil too? The reason I ask is because you have mil reticle but you talk about MOA.
.1 mil is .36" at 100y so at 500 .1 mil is 1.8 inches, so .5 mils (1/2 mil) @ 500 is 9 inches.
I my experience even with .5 mil marks one can still hold .25 (1/4) mil with good accuracy. I guess accuracy needed is based on the mission and requirements of it.
I guess you're talking about precision, and unless one has a reticle with .1mil hash marks I would tend to agree with you. I'm not talking about that kind of shooting. I'm talking about making a quick hit on chest size target, whether animal or otherwise. Even for hunting that precision isn't really required.
If we're talking about very precise shooting, having all the time we need to wait for conditions to match the scope etc...etc... then we're taking about 2 different things.
IMO if that was the case, then those details should have been clarified from the beginning in the article and this conversation. I think it's an important destingtion to new shooters are trying to find their nitch. Tactical precision shooting and BR shooting are very different things and TTPs are very different. Even tactical shooting between military and LE is very different. LEO's need to be more precise than military even though their average engagements are MUCH shorter than military, but neither have the luxury to wait until conditions match the scope dial to take the shot, and more importantly if the shot is missed, it needs to be made up yesterday, and that's not happening if you are dialing in new adjustments. The same principal can be applied to hunting, if the first round is a miss, I want to make the second one as fast as possible, before the prey get's spooked and runs off. It's even more importantly is if the first hit was a bad one, the second one needs to happen right away before the wounded animal runs off and suffers needlessly.
paphil
Well-Known Member
Last time I checked, 1 mil at 100 yards was about 3.5 inches???? I could be wrong.
Reread last post and realized there was a . in front of the mil for 100 yds. I use MOA and always holdover for wind with the reticle on the Huskemaw having 8 lines on each side. The wind dope is inscribed on the turret for the load that I'm using.
Reread last post and realized there was a . in front of the mil for 100 yds. I use MOA and always holdover for wind with the reticle on the Huskemaw having 8 lines on each side. The wind dope is inscribed on the turret for the load that I'm using.
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paphil
Well-Known Member
I'm using the Huskemaw scope and it has 8 MOA marks left and right. Also has standard dialing but I rarely dial windage. The wind allowance numbers are on a row above the yardage marks on the turret and are bullet and condition specific. I can't see how the wind velocity could be incorporated into the lens and be accurate for different bullets. The wind hold for low BC bullets can be double that of high BC bullets. Most generic scope adjustments are all pretty effective out to 500 yards but after that you better be doping the wind and other conditions a lot closer if you want to make a good hit. That said , I've got 8 MOA each side but that is only about 2 1/2 mils so the mil dots will give more hold over (off) than the MOA but the MOA is much finer adjustment. It's easier to hold 1/2 MOA than 1/6 mil.
shortpants
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As I understand it 1 mil is 3.6" @ 100yds. and 3.44moa. Chief you were correct. I had not had my caffeine yet this morning. That right there is proof to every body who reads this thread the value of a mil/mil or moa/moa system. I unfortunately did not understand that when I had premier build that scope for me years ago. I have a 6.5-20x50LRTAC Leupold BLACK RING scope with M1 turrets in moa. Leupold does not offer these any more as I believe they are twins to the Mark 4. Since I am much more familiar with moa I have just memorized what each hash/dot represents in moa but have not found it to be a reliable way to hold for wind (surprise, surprise). I plan on upgrading asap! On my drop chart that I carry I drew a diagram of my reticle with MOA references. Stupid but cheap for now.
This has been the most easy too follow article I've ever read on wind reading I've been shooting long range for a few years now but I've learnt a Lott from this. One point I will make I was at Bisly ( our national shooting ground ) shooting my FTR rifle at 900yards. The wind had the flags flat out left to right and yet we had to adjust upto 6moa right ! The real old boys said they had seen this only once befor. Then we shot 600yards in the afternoon and had the same again as I had 7moa to the right with a strong left to right wind! Just thought IDE put this exerance in as it just goes to show that even with flags its still exerance that can count the most. With out the help of a cuple of old TR shooters I don't think we would have got on paper. Now I've had this lesson as it were ill be prepared in the futer.
bounty hunter 2
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I am new here and to this type of extreme range shooting. My application for long range shooting is in harvesting coyotes from which I sell the fur. Each year I use my fur check to upgrade my shooting system. What I am woefully deficient in and ignorant of is the electronic equipment people are using to calculate the ballistic correction for long range shots.
My long range shooting to date is to 800 yards and is about as far as I need to shoot. If ranges are longer I can usually get closer but not always.
I am to say the least overwhelmed with all the marvelous gadgetry I am seeing while looking into the subject.
I would like to know what the shooter in the video is using in this regard. Please no abbreviations because I have no idea what they mean. I see what looks like maybe a Kestrel wind device, a compass, and some type of hand held computer. I would like to know the name and model of these items so I might study them a bit. I would like to study their capability and price range so that I may better understand what experienced folks are using and spending for the capability.
My need and desire is to increase my first shot hit probability within the range I will shoot which will be mostly 800 yards and less. Most of my shots are between 400 and 600 yards but I still need everything working in my favor to make one shot hits because coyotes seldom make themselves available for a second shot.
I shoot smaller bores that what seems to be generally used for long range shooting. Calibers I shoot are 22 through 26. Early season see's the use of 22 and 24 cals and late season when the snow is down and things a bit more spread out the 25 and 26 cals are employed.
Thanks for your help with a novice LRH.
My long range shooting to date is to 800 yards and is about as far as I need to shoot. If ranges are longer I can usually get closer but not always.
I am to say the least overwhelmed with all the marvelous gadgetry I am seeing while looking into the subject.
I would like to know what the shooter in the video is using in this regard. Please no abbreviations because I have no idea what they mean. I see what looks like maybe a Kestrel wind device, a compass, and some type of hand held computer. I would like to know the name and model of these items so I might study them a bit. I would like to study their capability and price range so that I may better understand what experienced folks are using and spending for the capability.
My need and desire is to increase my first shot hit probability within the range I will shoot which will be mostly 800 yards and less. Most of my shots are between 400 and 600 yards but I still need everything working in my favor to make one shot hits because coyotes seldom make themselves available for a second shot.
I shoot smaller bores that what seems to be generally used for long range shooting. Calibers I shoot are 22 through 26. Early season see's the use of 22 and 24 cals and late season when the snow is down and things a bit more spread out the 25 and 26 cals are employed.
Thanks for your help with a novice LRH.
bounty hunter 2
Well-Known Member
I have been using Sierra infinity to print data cards but want to graduate to a mobile system so that I may input the current conditions of where I am when I am there.
Yesterday I acquired my first weather device a Kestrel 2500 to help with that.
Currently I have no hand held computer either phone or otherwise so I am looking in that area. I am learning that the type of hand held computer I get will determine what ballistic program will be compatible. In this area I am woefully ignorant so am stumped at the moment and is why I have asked the question
