Nosler #8 Guide

[baydog]

I believe in Nosler all the way from they're reloading data to they're brass and bullets..Great stuff.. Just wandering if anyone has seen many changes in the #8 guide compared to the #7.. For example the data for a 243 winchester with a 80gr bullet, the #7 nosler book says a max of 45.0gr imr4350 powder but the # 8 book has no data at all for the imr4350 powder using a 80gr bullet. I've been using that recipe for quite a while but now i kinda makes me wander if I should quit using that rescipe, because Nosler had a reason for not putting it in the #8 guide..Haven't check any data for the other rifles i load for yet..Has anyone else seen many changes in other calibers?
Thanks

 

[scottishkat]

The Nosler 8 seems a bit incomplete to me some of the stories are missing but the meat of the data is better in the 8 than the 7 in some cases. They added the ABLR but most of the data for the ABLR is the same data as like weight bullets from the 7.

Don't know why they dropped I4350 from the 80gr .243 added others and they kept it in the 85gr data.

Having additional manuals is not a bad thing. They create them more often than they used to.

I am seriously considering Quickload

Good luck and shoot straight

Bob

 

[baydog]

Thanks Bob. Was concerned of maybe pressure issues or something like that was the reason why they changed it. Maybe I should call Nosler to see if they will give me a answer. I don't have any signs of pressure issues like case swelling or trouble opening the bolt after firing the ammo. Gun really seems to like 45gr of Imr4350 with a 80gr bullet. It is max load for that powder and bullet recipe. What concerns me most is my 12 year old son is who I load this for. For now I think The safest thing to do would be back off a couple grain of powder for now. Thanks for your help Bob

Scotty

 

[TOM H]

I believe in Nosler all the way from they're reloading data to they're brass and bullets..Great stuff.. Just wandering if anyone has seen many changes in the #8 guide compared to the #7.. For example the data for a 243 winchester with a 80gr bullet, the #7 nosler book says a max of 45.0gr imr4350 powder but the # 8 book has no data at all for the imr4350 powder using a 80gr bullet. I've been using that recipe for quite a while but now i kinda makes me wander if I should quit using that rescipe, because Nosler had a reason for not putting it in the #8 guide..Haven't check any data for the other rifles i load for yet..Has anyone else seen many changes in other calibers?
Thanks

If you really look at the different between #7 and #8 for the 243 and 80gr bullets you will see they add 4 more loads and only kept couple powders. Most accurate load also changed.

They dropped IMR-4350 but added IMR-4451,H-4350.

Myself I'm glad their updating some loads and if you looked at two powders they keep they up dated those loads.

 

[Darkker]

Depending on what powders you use, Quickload can get you into terrible very quickly. It REALLY doesn't have the depth to accurately describe much of anything coming out of either of General Dynamics plants.

Scotty,
Until they start listing lot numbers tested, never assume your powder has the same burning rate. Simply matching grains of powder is unwise.

 

[baydog]

I have faith in any Nosler product and never sway off the path of what the nosler manuals have laid out for us because i know a lot of hard work and a lot time and testing goes into they're manuals. Was just a bit concern because of the load i had been loading in my son's .243 is not listed in the #8 edition nosler manual but i've never had any problems with the gun or seen any signs of high pressure when looking at a just fired case..Really was wandering if Nosler is suggesting to stop using the load or rescipe that they have published for the past however many years the #7 edtion has been out or if it would be ok to keep using it..Personally I haven't had any problem with it for the 5 or 6 years i've been using it so I'm probally gonna keep on using it but there has to be a reason they didn't list it in the #8 edition. I've been using the Nosler Reloading manuals since the green one, not near it to be able to tell ya the edition# but it is small comparded to the 7 and 8 edition. Glad they got bigger cause the older i get seems like the smaller my eyes get....So bigger is better... This will probally be the last year my son shoots the .243 anyways. Next year I'm turning him on to my .257 weatherby Remington model 700 but his little cousion will probally be shooting the 243 and he is very recoil shy..So now i'm creating a whole nother problem for myself trying to find a rescipe my nephew won't be shy of. With the Dupont IMR4350, the min. load is 41gr I believe,( i don't have the manual close by) . He will be probally be shooting a max of 50 yard for practicing and to get him use to the gun ( we shoot all summer too because we just like shooting and practiceing and it gives these little guys the confidence for hunting they need) so now I have a new question, since my nephew will be shooting at paper only this summer no further than 50 yards to help get him over the recoil shyness what's everyone opinion on going a few grains under the min. powder charge to ease up on the recoil to get him over the recoil shy-ness hump? I know I'm opening a whole new can of worms but i figure I'd throw it out there to get some experinced opinions.
Thanks
Scotty

 

[Engineering101]

A few years back I learned of an old trick to get ES to a minimum. The trick is to cram a case full of powder that is way too slow. An example of this is RL-26 in a 300 WSM with the 200 gr ELD-X. 68.0 grains ran 2,975 fps yesterday out of a 26 inch factory Savage barrel with an ES of 9 fps for 3 shots. Shot from 200 yards, the group measured 1.578". I'm just starting load development so might be able to shrink group size a bit but ES is just fine. I have lots of reloading manuals and used to follow them closely but I have since learned that they are better used as guidelines and that there are lots of good loads NOT listed.

 

[baydog]

ES?? Does that mean extreme spread?? Sorry for being such a peanut butter head...But If I don't know what it is I ain't to proud to ask..lol.. So I think i understand what your telling me. The IMR4350 is a faster burning powder than the we'll say like retumbo or h1000..So a slower burning might not have as much recoil for my gun shy nephew or have I jumpped track and got way off the subject you are trying to explain to me.
I can tell ya this much.. Depending on the caliber and the powder being used I have alway wandered about filling the case up just a hair below having a compressed load..I ain't got brave enough to try it yet but it sure does seem like to me that if you can find a powder that takes up almost all the capacity of whatever size caliber gun you're loading for sure seems to be a pretty accurate load. I've never swayed off the path of the max load that the manual says but I have noticed thata 92-97% loaded case usally turns out to be a acurate load if you can find one that is within your max limit according to whatever manual you are sticking using.

 

[Engineering101]

baydog

ES is extreme spread and yes a too slow powder is also a great way to make reduced recoil loads. For example a friend has a daughter for whom he bought a 7mm 08 and he wanted to cut down the recoil for her first deer hunt. We crammed the case full of US869 and stuck a 150 gr Nosler Accubond Long Range on top. That load ran 2,000 fps and with that nice soft AB LR it stoned the whitetail doe she shot from 50 yards. It was also very accurate. If you are worried about using loads not listed anywhere it is kind of common sense that you can't put enough US869 in a 7mm08 case to get an overpressure situation no matter what bullet you stick on top.

 

[baydog]

I have some retumbo and h1000 powder that i use in my 300rum. is that powder any where close to the us869 you used for your 7mm-08? I know these are slower burning powders than the 4350 but i really don't know enough about powders to know if i could use these 2 powders like you used the us869 for your 7mm-08 ..to me gun powder is one of the most hardest factors in determing whats good for the caliber you're loading for because of all the diffrent burn times and everything else that goes along with understanding powders..as a matter of fact i've never heard of the us869 but i know midway sells it and would be willing to buy some to help my nephew get over the recoil hump. Everyone in my family turns to me to teach they're kids how to drive and get them intrested in things outdoors like fishing and hunting instead of computers and video games..And i don't mind at all, I enjoy it. Some of them have actually grown up and went to college and gotten married but still remember where they got started and who taught them these things. I have one boy that's 12 of my own and a bunch of nieece's and nephews and they all learned how to drive on either a 8n ford tractor or farmall cub then graduated to golf cart then actual cars or pickups. But this nephew is a little city boy and very shy and i'm gonna do everything i can do to convert him to a little country boy and fun ain't just on a video sceen...anyways thats my life story and i would apperciate any help with the powder issue.
Thanks
Scotty

 

[baydog]

Engineering101...I found this little bit of info that i thought was intresting and wanted to share with you

"The .243 Win excels with a wide variety of powders, and excellent factory-loaded hunting ammunition is available. Off-the-shelf .243 rifles from Howa, Remington, Savage, and Tikka perform admirably with little or no modification. The "improved" version of the cartridge, the .243 Ackley, can do everything its parent can do, with more velocity, and greater brass stability thanks to its 40° shoulder. Among the Ackley variants, the .243 AI is rightly one of the most popular. It is easy to fire-form, and commercial dies are readily available. Barrel life is the downside of both the .243 AI and standard .243. These chamberings pump a lot of powder through a small bore. The result, typically, is rather short barrel life, sometimes less than 1500 rounds. A few folks have been experimenting with the use of very slow, cooler-burning powders. There is some evidence that the use of super-slow powders, combined with modified cleaning regimens, can result in significantly enhanced barrel life."

 

[Engineering101]

baydog

You can find lists of powder burn rates out on the web. I find it useful to use the numbers QuickLoad uses to describe burn rates so you get an absolute reference powder to powder. US869 for example has a burn rate of 0.2735 while Retumbo is 0.3370 and H4350 is 0.5130. If you mix those powders up and put say H4350 in a case where you should have used Retumbo you can blow you rifle to pieces. That is just my way of saying that if you are not sure of what you are doing and why then best not mess with it. I've given you a few ideas but I would suggest you find someone in your local with some expertise that can help you figure out what to do to make some reduced recoil loads.

 

[baydog]

Engineering101...Understood and agree. Thought it was intresting that in that little bit of info I found that some people that I'm sure have a better understanding of powders than I do are trying some slower burning powders for longer barrel life and recoil reduction though. I'm gonna quit while I'm ahead with the rescipe I have found with the IMR4350. It's a bit under min. suggested load but is getting the job done and reducing recoil. I do find it intresting that a way under min, load can cause high pressure issues too but I have no signs of primers backing out or case swelling and it's shooting groups tigh enough that it's touching bullet holes consistently...so I'm gonna be satisfied with what i've come up with and get this boy shooting real soon... Thanks for you're help

 

[Gord0]

Been reading the forum's for a while but first post here. I remembered reading an article a little while back and found it again. Do some research on this yourself to verify this!
Hodgdon H4895 Rifle Powder