moly bullets new rifle

[benp86]

after some information/opinions on the use of moly bullets (Norma diamond line 130s)for load development in a new tikka Ctr stainless 260rem

1)should I just shoot them as if they were normal non coated bullets?
2) is there any extra special cleaning techniques or solvents to use?

 

[Gene]

after some information/opinions on the use of moly bullets (Norma diamond line 130s)for load development in a new tikka Ctr stainless 260rem

1)should I just shoot them as if they were normal non coated bullets?
2) is there any extra special cleaning techniques or solvents to use?

1. You will need to reduce your load slightly.
2. Use the same solvents. Unless you get heavy carbon, you need not clean as frequently.

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

I use coated bullets only in all my rifles, from my Borden built 6 ppc to my off the shelf hunting rifles and have done so for decades. I use Danzac more than moly with outstanding results, I coat my own Barnes bullets and now get zero copper fouling no matter how many shots I fire. Don't listen to all the naw sayers who tried it one tire...the idea is to let it fill in every crack, nick..do not try to clean it until your getting a perfectly white patch, your defeating the purpose, I don't clean nearly as much and have never noticed any change in accuracy no matter how many shots I've shot, give it an honest chance !

 

[kyron]

1. You will need to reduce your load slightly.
2. Use the same solvents. Unless you get heavy carbon, you need not clean as frequently.

Less frequently than never, wow. That's awesome.
Just kidding, sort of. I do plan to use HBN when I get a new barrel.

 

[Jeff In TX]

1. You will need to reduce your load slightly.
2. Use the same solvents. Unless you get heavy carbon, you need not clean as frequently.

Moly impregnated on a bullet is the worst stuff you could ever run down your barrel. I don't say that our of my opinion but out of the facts. Back in the 2001/2 time frame I trashed a brand new Shilen stainless steel match barrel in under 400 rounds shooting moly coated bullets. Yes, it took less than 400 rounds. This was during the moly bullet craze and I thought what the heck I'll give them a try. Let's just say I was not a happy camper. I live within 60 miles of Shilen Barrel's and took the rifle down to them to try to figure out what was wrong. After a good cleaning the borescope showed the throat area black as night. Doug Shilen had one of his techs hand lap the barrel but the black throat remained, I shot the rifle again with the same poor results. Doug Shilen decided the barrel was bad and removed it. He cut the throat section out to see what was really wrong. The throat area showed the black moly ring of death which was so hard Doug could barely scrape it with the side of a flat head screwdriver. The heat and pressure of the round going off actually bonded the moly to the throat area. Each round I shot laid down another micro layer of the stuff. Do what you want, say what you want but I saw what this stuff did does up close and personal with the barrel manufacture. The stuff trashed my new barrel in less than 400 rounds. Also, I did not coat the bullets myself but bought 500 bullets already coated.

A few months after I had the the new barrel installed I was hanging out at Speedy Gonzales's gun shop (hall of fame bench rest shooter) when he still lived in N Texas. I told him what happened. He pointed to box that had 40 or so barrels in it over in the corner and said all of those barrels have the same black ring of death in them from moly bullets. He wasn't a fan of them as well.

My advice, just shoot your non-coated chosen bullets down your barrel. Clean when your accuracy starts going south.

 

[Mikecr]

Jeff, what you saw was the result of moly use + your notion:"Clean when your accuracy starts going south".
You have to manage moly use, which includes constant cleaning of it with JB compound, to prevent build up. Once it's built up to the point of bore constriction, there is no recovery.

Gene, moly in itself reduces pressure and MV. So not only does the load not need to be reduced, it will likely need to be increased.
Also, there is no solvent that removes moly. Only abrasives work on it. If you clean a bore subjected to moly normally, it will die(accuracy-wise) just like Jeff's.

Honestly, I'm surprised that moly is still in use at all. What moly can do, as described by Jeff, is show us the ultimate killer of a bore: Constriction.
We have WS2, which reduces copper fouling as well, does not change MV, and cleans out just the same as carbon(it doesn't bond to itself like moly).
But moly can and has been managed well enough to actually extend barrel life(through charge cooling). It just takes a plan. While the advantage sought with moly is extending shot strings before copper fouling out, and it works, that never meant reduced cleaning requirements.

 

[Jeff In TX]

Jeff, what you saw was the result of moly use + your notion:"Clean when your accuracy starts going south".
You have to manage moly use, which includes constant cleaning of it with JB compound, to prevent build up. Once it's built up to the point of bore constriction, there is no recovery.

Gene, moly in itself reduces pressure and MV. So not only does the load not need to be reduced, it will likely need to be increased.
Also, there is no solvent that removes moly. Only abrasives work on it. If you clean a bore subjected to moly normally, it will die(accuracy-wise) just like Jeff's.

Honestly, I'm surprised that moly is still in use at all. What moly can do, as described by Jeff, is show us the ultimate killer of a bore: Constriction.
We have WS2, which reduces copper fouling as well, does not change MV, and cleans out just the same as carbon(it doesn't bond to itself like moly).
But moly can and has been managed well enough to actually extend barrel life(through charge cooling). It just takes a plan. While the advantage sought with moly is extending shot strings before copper fouling out, and it works, that never meant reduced cleaning requirements.

I have to say I was very diligent the first 100 rounds in cleaning. After that is when my accuracy started to go. The problem with JB's is many barrel manufactures will void warranties if your using that stuff. Plus I'm not into scrubbing a barrel down to bare steel and removing the burnish.

I'll agree it still amazes me folks are using moly!

 

[WildRose]

You will find people who swear by or over anything. Using Moly coatings on bullets definitely builds up material inside of your barrel so if you are not cleaning religiously and thoroughly sooner or later you build up enough to cause constriction and pressure problems.

After much research over the course of several years mostly consisting of reading technical articles and listening to shooters I know, trust, and respect I came to the conclusion that shooting moly coated bullets occasionally did little or no harm but also offered little or no long term benefits unless your tube is just rough as a stove pipe to begin with.

Even in the latter case I think you are far better off trying to polish out the barrel with a good jag and patches wetted with lapping compound vs trying to fill the gouges with moly compounds.

For long term protection I have always kept a light coat of some sort of non drying lubricant in my barrels because I don't clean religiously and most of my rifles are considered "Truck Guns" meaning there's at least one bouncing around in the front and another in the back seat 365 days a year no matter what the conditions. Under such conditions even stainless is not truly "stainless" and rust free so something that both lubricates and protects is essential; just don't over do it.

Again after man years of trying numerous oils and spray type grease I settle on a product called "machinegunners lube".

Tactical Springs & Machine Gunners Lube

Scroll down the page past all of the spring and buffer info and read about the lubricant. I'm not a salesman for them but I can promise you it doesn't disappoint. Not only do I keep a light coating of it (very light) on my bolts and actions I occasionally dampen a patch with it and run it through the barrel a few strokes to ensure my bore and chamber keep a non evaporating non dust/dirt attracting lubricant and protectant. I can't tell you that it makes a significant difference but on those firearms I keep a loaded magazine in I also will lightly dampen a soft cloth and wipe down my ammo before loading.

I've pulled apart bolts that I've not lubricated in years (Rem 700, AR's, M77's and M70's and found no rust and very little if any dust whatsoever showing even on the springs and firing pins.

I'm very happy with it and don't know of anyone who's given it a honest try that was not also very pleased with it.

 

[Mikecr]

Since we're getting into cleaning, with abrasives, I'm compelled to bring in a point about it.
WE DON'T EVER WANT TO 'POLISH' A BORE.
Polishing is a dangerous misnomer for lapping. If you do polish a bore, copper fouling will instantly go through the roof.
And truly, the only way to fix a polished bore -is re-lapping. But if you got overzealous with your polishing, enough lapping to fix it, will also break it. The bore was just plain ruined.. I did this, I have a friend who did it, I read where others have..

- Don't ever use Flitz in a bore
- Don't ever use J-B 'BORE BRIGHT'

- Use J-B 'NON-EMBEDDING BORE CLEANING COMPOUND': J-B® NON-EMBEDDING BORE CLEANING COMPOUND | Brownells
This, in frequent but rational use, will not harm the best in lapping, as it actually matches it.
When you feel a constrictive rough spot in a bore, break out the J-B and work on the spot for a minute. Done,, didn't hurt a thing.
If shooting moly, plan to J-B the first few inches, and soon you'll feel another spot ~10" down the bore. Then work both areas every time you clean. The ~10" area is where vaporized moly re-condenses, and re-bonds to itself. It takes a while, but this is the area that will kill accuracy, because once it's undeniable, it's too late...

Sounds like a lot of work, huh? YEP