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Reloading
Forster bushing bump neck die?
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<blockquote data-quote="bigedp51" data-source="post: 1299334" data-attributes="member: 28965"><p>Below is from German Salazar's "The Riflemans Journal" website which has closed down. It is also the first place I heard the expression "Fit the chamber like a rat turd in a violin case". This is because Mr. Salazar was friends with the late Jim Hull of Sierra bullets ballistic test lab and competitive shooter. </p><p></p><p>A question was asked about "Partial Neck Sizing" with a full length die. And Mr. Salazar is explaining the benefits of full length resizing. </p><p></p><p>Reloading: Partial Neck Sizing</p><p>by German A. Salazar</p><p><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><u><a href="http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/06/reloading-partial-neck-sizing.html" target="_blank">http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/06/reloading-partial-neck-sizing.html</a></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></u></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #000080">"Now the last scenario, a full-length sized case in which the neck is also fully sized. There is clearance at the neck and in the body of the case, the closest fit anywhere is the bullet in the throat. If the neck to bullet concentricity is good (although it needn't be perfect), then the bullet will find good alignment in the throat and the case body and neck will have minimal influence. Let's not forget that the base of the case is supported by the bolt face or the extractor to a certain degree as well; this is yet another influence on alignment. As you can see, there are several points from base to bullet that can have an effect. My procedure is to minimize the influence of those that I can control, namely the case body and neck, and let the alignment be dictated by the fit of the bullet in the throat and to some extent by the bolt's support of the base. Barring a seriously out of square case head, I don't think the bolt can have a negative effect on alignment, only a slightly positive effect from minimizing "case droop" in the chamber. Given that a resized case will usually have a maximum of 0.001" diametrical clearance at the web, this isn't much of a factor anyway."</span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black">What Mr.Salazar is saying above is we do not live in a world where each cartridge case is perfectly made with uniform wall thickness. And when a case is fired the thin side of the case will expand more. When this happens the case warps and becomes egg shaped and also referred to as a warped banana shaped case.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black">And what Mr. Salizar is saying is that the full length resized case has "less" guiding effect with the bullet and the bore. Meaning the less than perfect warped fired cases when full length resized will give the bullet "wiggle room" to be self aligning with the axis of the bore.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black">Bottom line, the Late Jim Hull and Kevin Thomas of the Sierra ballistic test laboratory along with German Salazar were members of the "rat turd in the violin case" club and full length resized all their cartridge cases.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black">And at the Whidden custom die website they tell you they get the most concentric cases from non-bushing full length sizing dies.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px">NECO CONCENTRICITY, WALL THICKNESS AND RUNOUT GAUGE</span></span></strong></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></strong></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></strong> <img src="http://www.neconos.com/NEWDIAL2.JPG" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black"></span></span></p><div style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Franklin Gothic Demi'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #0000FF">"Also referred to as "The Case Gauge," this item is designed to measure:</span></span></span></div> <div style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Franklin Gothic Demi'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #0000FF"></span></span></span></div> <div style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Franklin Gothic Demi'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #0000FF"></span></span></span></div><p><span style="font-size: 12px"> <span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #0000FF">1) The curved "banana" shape of the cartridge case;</span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #0000FF">2) The relative wall thickness variation of a cartridge case;</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #0000FF"> 3) The cartridge case head out-of-squareness;</span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #0000FF">4) Individual Bullets - out-of-round "egg shape" and/or </span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #0000FF">curved "banana" shape (excepting very small bullets);</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: #0000FF"> 5) The seated bullet and cartridge runout of loaded rounds. The accuracy of any firearm is determined -- and limited -- by the quality of the ammunition shot in it. The effect of imperfections in ammunition is cumulative; each flaw adds to the influence of all others. Precision shooters spend much time and effort "uniforming" cartridge cases, using advanced techniques to eliminate variation. Yet until recently, one of the most important of these variations has not been susceptible to detection by any device readily available to marksmen.</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #0000FF"> Normal manufacturing tolerances cause brass cartridge cases to vary in wall thickness around the circumference of their bodies. Under the stress of firing, a case with such variation stretches more readily along its thin side, transferring more pressure to the bolt face at that point and introducing an unbalanced force which contributes to bolt whip and vibration of the barreled action in its bedding. This whip and vibration varies from one shot to the next as cartridges are fired with their thin sides randomly oriented at different angles, causing reduced accuracy. The problem is made even worse if the brass is too hard or springy to completely fireform to the shape of the chamber, in which event the greater stretching of the case's thin side will cause it to develop a curve along the length of its body. These "banana" cases cannot hold a bullet aligned with and centered in the bore, undercutting the effectiveness of the handloader's careful case preparation."</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bigedp51, post: 1299334, member: 28965"] Below is from German Salazar's "The Riflemans Journal" website which has closed down. It is also the first place I heard the expression "Fit the chamber like a rat turd in a violin case". This is because Mr. Salazar was friends with the late Jim Hull of Sierra bullets ballistic test lab and competitive shooter. A question was asked about "Partial Neck Sizing" with a full length die. And Mr. Salazar is explaining the benefits of full length resizing. Reloading: Partial Neck Sizing by German A. Salazar [U][U][U][U][U][U][U][U][U][U][U][U][U][URL]http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/06/reloading-partial-neck-sizing.html[/URL][/U][/U][/U][/U][/U][/U][/U][/U][/U][/U][/U][/U][/U] [COLOR=#000080]"Now the last scenario, a full-length sized case in which the neck is also fully sized. There is clearance at the neck and in the body of the case, the closest fit anywhere is the bullet in the throat. If the neck to bullet concentricity is good (although it needn't be perfect), then the bullet will find good alignment in the throat and the case body and neck will have minimal influence. Let's not forget that the base of the case is supported by the bolt face or the extractor to a certain degree as well; this is yet another influence on alignment. As you can see, there are several points from base to bullet that can have an effect. My procedure is to minimize the influence of those that I can control, namely the case body and neck, and let the alignment be dictated by the fit of the bullet in the throat and to some extent by the bolt's support of the base. Barring a seriously out of square case head, I don't think the bolt can have a negative effect on alignment, only a slightly positive effect from minimizing "case droop" in the chamber. Given that a resized case will usually have a maximum of 0.001" diametrical clearance at the web, this isn't much of a factor anyway." [COLOR=black] What Mr.Salazar is saying above is we do not live in a world where each cartridge case is perfectly made with uniform wall thickness. And when a case is fired the thin side of the case will expand more. When this happens the case warps and becomes egg shaped and also referred to as a warped banana shaped case. And what Mr. Salizar is saying is that the full length resized case has "less" guiding effect with the bullet and the bore. Meaning the less than perfect warped fired cases when full length resized will give the bullet "wiggle room" to be self aligning with the axis of the bore. Bottom line, the Late Jim Hull and Kevin Thomas of the Sierra ballistic test laboratory along with German Salazar were members of the "rat turd in the violin case" club and full length resized all their cartridge cases. And at the Whidden custom die website they tell you they get the most concentric cases from non-bushing full length sizing dies. [/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=#000080][COLOR=black][B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]NECO CONCENTRICITY, WALL THICKNESS AND RUNOUT GAUGE [/SIZE][/FONT][/B] [IMG]http://www.neconos.com/NEWDIAL2.JPG[/IMG] [/COLOR][/COLOR] [LEFT][FONT=Franklin Gothic Demi][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000FF]"Also referred to as "The Case Gauge," this item is designed to measure: [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT] [SIZE=3] [FONT=Arial][COLOR=#0000FF]1) The curved "banana" shape of the cartridge case; 2) The relative wall thickness variation of a cartridge case; 3) The cartridge case head out-of-squareness; 4) Individual Bullets - out-of-round "egg shape" and/or curved "banana" shape (excepting very small bullets); 5) The seated bullet and cartridge runout of loaded rounds. The accuracy of any firearm is determined -- and limited -- by the quality of the ammunition shot in it. The effect of imperfections in ammunition is cumulative; each flaw adds to the influence of all others. Precision shooters spend much time and effort "uniforming" cartridge cases, using advanced techniques to eliminate variation. Yet until recently, one of the most important of these variations has not been susceptible to detection by any device readily available to marksmen.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][SIZE=3] [COLOR=#0000FF] Normal manufacturing tolerances cause brass cartridge cases to vary in wall thickness around the circumference of their bodies. Under the stress of firing, a case with such variation stretches more readily along its thin side, transferring more pressure to the bolt face at that point and introducing an unbalanced force which contributes to bolt whip and vibration of the barreled action in its bedding. This whip and vibration varies from one shot to the next as cartridges are fired with their thin sides randomly oriented at different angles, causing reduced accuracy. The problem is made even worse if the brass is too hard or springy to completely fireform to the shape of the chamber, in which event the greater stretching of the case's thin side will cause it to develop a curve along the length of its body. These "banana" cases cannot hold a bullet aligned with and centered in the bore, undercutting the effectiveness of the handloader's careful case preparation."[/COLOR] [/SIZE] [/SIZE][/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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Forster bushing bump neck die?
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