Forster bushing bump neck die?

[Lonewolf74]

So my question is has anybody used these and what is your opinion on them?

I asked this question in another thread here and got one response that said they created the most runout out of the dies they had. So I'm just looking for some more opinions and people's experience with them.

It seems like these dies should be the best of both worlds between FL and neck sizing but maybe they don't actually work as well as I would think.

Any opinions are appreciated, thanks in advance

 

[243winxb]

Bumping the shoulder without support, just doesn't seem right to me.

From asking and the instructions, it seems possible to bump the shoulder to much, causing the rounds to not chamber.

This is where taking good measurements are needed.

Have not tried the bump neck die.

Using Redding FL busihng S die.

 

[Citius7]

I mean... they are good quality and do the job. Haven't experienced any crazy run out but the biggest turn off for me is that Forster uses bushings that are different than the Redding, whidden (crs or whatever), Wilson, hornady bushings. I think those are 1/2 inch and these are bigger. Slightly different width so it just doesn't work. That makes me not buy them. But what is nice is u get 3 of their own when u buy the die. Run out on mine was marginal.

 

[lhsmith]

Although some have said they get good results with them, they will have a tendency to flare the case at the neck/ shoulder junction. Although it is usually only a few ten thousandths, you can see daylight if you run a straightedge across the case body. In a match rifle, it is enough to cause more chambering effort which disrupts the rifle in the bags. As was said in a previous post, without full case body support the case will distort.

 

[bigedp51]

I have a Forster bushing bump die and several other type neck sizing dies. And as stated above the body of the case is not fully supported as it would be in a full length sizing die, meaning more neck runout.

Also when using bushing dies if the neck diameter is reduced .004 or more you can induce neck runout. Meaning in a off the shelf factory SAAMI chamber a bushing die has a high probability of having more neck runout than a non-bushing full length die.

And at the Whidden custom die website they tell you they get the most concentric cases using non-bushing full length dies.

I get the least neck runout when using Forster full length benchrest dies with their high mounted floating expander.

Below a Redding full length die equiped with a Forster expander and spindle that greatly reduced neck runout. I never understood why Redding used a oblong expander that even when the inside of the neck is lubed creates so much drag and pull on the case neck.

 

[Lonewolf74]

Thanks for all the reply's guy's. I see now why the bump die is not as good as it first looks and I don't think I'll be trying one out.
So this leaves me to my next question...

Forster FL die or Whidden FL die? (Not a whidden custom where they make the die off my fired brass)

 

[243winxb]

The unsided part of the neck helps to center the round in the chamber.. If i size the neck lower, accuracy is not as good.

It does take more effert to close the action, also. But not a lot.

Not sure if accuracy would be better for all rifles?

 

[CatShooter]

Although some have said they get good results with them, they will have a tendency to flare the case at the neck/ shoulder junction. Although it is usually only a few ten thousandths, you can see daylight if you run a straightedge across the case body. In a match rifle, it is enough to cause more chambering effort which disrupts the rifle in the bags. As was said in a previous post, without full case body support the case will distort.

I own three of them, and they are excellent. There is no problem chambering cases. There is no torque when closing the bolt, and there is no disrupting of the rifle in the bags.

Mr. Smith... If you have problems chambering a case that is 2/10,000" larger at the shoulder, then you have other problems that are much more serious. Case spring back is far greater than 2/10,000"

Have you actually owned and used a Forster Bump die, or are you making up a theory about them?

 

[slowrunning]

I've used them in 6BR, 243, and 308. Never checked runout but they chamber as easy as anything else. All three of those rifles shoot under .5 and the 6BR does .2s... they make accurate ammo so I don't question much else.

 

[Mikecr]

I use Redding body dies (some custom) for bumping, and separate Wilson dies for bushing neck sizing. This produces ammo straight as any you will find (including collet neck sizing).
On support, my body dies slightly squeeze the case bodies (squeezing is not sizing/yielding). This is all needed for support, and I couldn't imagine a body die that didn't at least provide this.

A bushing bump die/combination should work really well for cartridges/chambers that do not require lower body sizing. Mid-size Ackley improved cartridges come to mind. I've done it with 223, 6br, 6xc, 6.5wssm Imp. Soon with a 260AI(same capacity as my 6.5wssm Imp), and I believe this will represent the biggest area cartridge with this potential. Larger area, and there will not be enough barrel steel around the chamber to mitigate sizing needs near webs (even with a coned breech). That is, while running competitive pressures.

 

[Lonewolf74]

I use Redding body dies (some custom) for bumping, and separate Wilson dies for bushing neck sizing. This produces ammo straight as any you will find (including collet neck sizing).
On support, my body dies slightly squeeze the case bodies (squeezing is not sizing/yielding). This is all needed for support, and I couldn't imagine a body die that didn't at least provide this./QUOTE]

Mike can you explain this more to me? Are the dies you use custom so they only "squeeze the case body" or are the Redding body dies slightly bigger to not size the body much if at all?

Can the same be accomplished using a FL bushing die or even non bushing FL die by redding or Whidden?

Basically what I want to accomplish is make the most consistent/accurate ammo I can but still bump the shoulder .001 or so to always maintain easy cycling for hunting

 

[lhsmith]

C.S.- You, apparently, have good results with them. In Benchrest Sanctioned match competition, one has to fire rounds as rapidly as possible in order to get all 5 record rounds on the target in one condition (i.e. same wind direction/ velocity, same light condition- same mirage). This is with manual feeding one cartridge at a time as per rule. ANY interference in chambering will cause the rifle to upset in the sandbags-causing the rifle not to track the same way each time- taking precious time to retain previous point of aim. I know of no one in this game that uses these dies for this reason. Benchresters transitioned from neck sizing to full length sizing over a decade ago when accuracy gunsmiths started specing resize reamers that very closely matched the chambering reamer. I have used a forster bump neck die and confirmed they do indeed change the case diameter at the body-shoulder junction.
If I remember correctly from your posts on Accurate Shooter, most of your experience lies in military rifles. I am not limited to starting to mid pressure loads. To be competitive I have to load in the upper load tier. So neck sizing is not an option.
Obviously results will vary depending on your chamber dimensions and die tolerances and end use.

 

[bigedp51]

CatShooter

You lied to me, I thought I was the only one with a benchrest Enfield rifle at Accurate Shooter.

 

[CatShooter]

C.S.- You, apparently, have good results with them. In Benchrest Sanctioned match competition, one has to fire rounds as rapidly as possible in order to get all 5 record rounds on the target in one condition (i.e. same wind direction/ velocity, same light condition- same mirage). This is with manual feeding one cartridge at a time as per rule. ANY interference in chambering will cause the rifle to upset in the sandbags-causing the rifle not to track the same way each time- taking precious time to retain previous point of aim. I know of no one in this game that uses these dies for this reason. Benchresters transitioned from neck sizing to full length sizing over a decade ago when accuracy gunsmiths started specing resize reamers that very closely matched the chambering reamer. I have used a Forster bump neck die and confirmed they do indeed change the case diameter at the body-shoulder junction.
If I remember correctly from your posts on Accurate Shooter, most of your experience lies in military rifles. I am not limited to starting to mid pressure loads. To be competitive I have to load in the upper load tier. So neck sizing is not an option.
Obviously results will vary depending on your chamber dimensions and die tolerances and end use.

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"In Benchrest Sanctioned match competition, one has to fire rounds as rapidly as possible in order to get all 5 record rounds on the target in one condition"


L.H.S. – Apparently, you have wandered too far afield from your "safe space". This is "LongRangehunting.com"… not benchrestcentral.com.


What works for benchrest, often does not apply to other shooting endeavors.


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"If I remember correctly from your posts on Accurate Shooter, most of your experience lies in military rifles."


L.H.S. - You do NOT remember correctly – I have almost no interest in military rifles.


I shot competitive bench in the '70s and again in the late 90s, and then I left it because it had changed and did not interest me anymore. I still have my bench rifles.


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"I have used a Forster bump neck die and confirmed they do indeed change the case diameter at the body-shoulder junction."


L.H.S. – Well, actually, this is not true. You have NOT used a Forster Bump die, so you could NOT have determined or confirmed anything.


In the thread on Accurateshooter.com … (click the linkie)


Headspace Comparitor & Bumping | Page 2 | Shooters' Forum


… you stated the following:


"OK, my gut instincts tell me that the shoulder/ neck junction will bulge without any body support. Since I got rid of all my neck sizers, I took a PPC case and using a Sinclair 30A bump gauge insert and pushing it against the bottom of a die as a stop in a press and was able to (with some finesse) set the shoulder back 0.0015". The diameter at this transition increased by 0.0003" and there was a definite bulge at the junction when holding a straight edge along the case body when held up to a light. For Benchrest requirements this would be unacceptable. Apparently bump only dies work OK under less stringent demands."


You didn't have, or use, or test a Forster Bump die, you made the whole thing up, relying on your "Gut"…!


Well, I would propose that your gut does not know anything about Forster Bump dies (and maybe handloading in general) so maybe find another use for it.

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"Benchresters transitioned from neck sizing to full length sizing over a decade ago when accuracy gunsmiths started specing resize reamers that very closely matched the chambering reamer."

"I am not limited to starting to mid pressure loads. To be competitive I have to load in the upper load tier. So neck sizing is not an option."

L.H.S. – I never FL sized my match cases, and obviously, not all bench rest shooters have gotten he word on this shift to FL dies.

Terry Brady just shot the new world record group (an amazing 0.860") at 600 yards, with cases that were neck sized only

Terry says...
"[…] … I simply neck-size using a Wilson bushing die. In fact, my 6BR match brass has NEVER been full-length sized after it was fire-formed. The brass that shot the record had six or seven firings on it."

Read it for your self.

World Record Sub-Inch 600-Yard 6BR

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Now, the sad part of this, L.H.S. is… when guys come to a site like and ask a question about hardware, tools, actions, etc, they hope for (and should get) advice from people who know what they are talking about – that have actually used the equipment that is being discussed – that have real experience with it…

… not guesses by people that have never even used it, and are just blowing smoke to see themselves on the page.

You do the members of this board, and the owners of this board, a huge disservice!

Badd badd, L.H.S.