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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
115g VLD Berger for deer?
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<blockquote data-quote="Fiftydriver" data-source="post: 35296" data-attributes="member: 10"><p>Chris Matthews,</p><p></p><p>I knew this was coming, just did not know who would be the first to take offense.</p><p></p><p>The question posed was what I felt the game taking abilty of the 25-06 with the 115 gr Berger VLD was.</p><p></p><p>I answered the question from what I have witnessed in the field and stand by it.</p><p></p><p>If one of my customers came in wanting me to build them an extreme range hunting rifle, the 257 caliber rounds would not even come up in conversation if the hunter wanted to use this rifle at ranges past 500 yards.</p><p></p><p>Why would you select a caliber with such a limitation in bullet selection.</p><p></p><p>DO I feel the 25-06 is a good hunting round? For deer at 400 yards and under I feel it is perhaps the best. The problem lies in that I have yet to witness a 25-06 shoot any bullet heavier then 100 gr's with any real accuracy. By that I mean averaging less then 1/2 moa.</p><p></p><p>AVERAGING, not shooting one 3/8" group at 100 yards and then being labeled a sub 1/2 moa rifle.</p><p></p><p>I feel the 25-06 needs a 1-9 twist to be able to stabilize the 115 gr and higher tipped and VLD designs to produce fine accuracy.</p><p></p><p>It has nothing at all to do with game taking ability of the round or bullet. Its being able to hit your target accurately at extreme range.</p><p></p><p>If a rifle would hold 1/2 moa out to 800 yards then by all means use it on deer.</p><p></p><p>If its a 1 moa rifle with the 115 gr VLD bullets, it has no place being pointed at a game animal at ranges much past 400 yards.</p><p></p><p>And if your going to build a rifle for the sole purpose of hunting big game at ranges past 500 yards, why would you use such a caliber where even the VLD bullets in the .257 family are pretty weak in B.C. value.</p><p></p><p>All I said is that the 7mm is a much better caliber for extreme range hunting as is the 6.5mm.</p><p></p><p>The 30 and 338 rounds are the kings of the hill in game taking ablility.</p><p></p><p>Also, it is in fact the temperary wound channel that damages the most tissue, not a pre-bullet shock wave. It is the outward shock wave as the bullet speeds through the target that forces the tissue outwardly, not ahead.</p><p></p><p>If you do a little research about super sonic shock waves dealing with aircraft you will see that there is very little if any forward shock wave created by a supersonic projectile.</p><p></p><p>Once the bullet slows to sub sonic then you get some but it is lateral displacement of tissue that kill animals.</p><p></p><p>To be honest, and this is again my opinion, but it is nothing but fool hardy to target deer at 500 yards and farther with a 223.</p><p></p><p>Can it be done, someone will always try the extreme.</p><p></p><p>My question is why would you do that when there are so many better options to use.</p><p></p><p>It is usually because someone wants to try their Highpower rifle out on game. A poor quality idea in my mind.</p><p></p><p>Again, a answered the question as I have witnessed things and stand by my opinion, you can do and say what you wish as well and I will do the same with my customers. They have yet to be unsatisfied.</p><p></p><p>Someone hunting deer at 500 yards with a 223 will certainly loose more game then a properly armed long range hunter will.</p><p></p><p>Kirby Allen(50)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fiftydriver, post: 35296, member: 10"] Chris Matthews, I knew this was coming, just did not know who would be the first to take offense. The question posed was what I felt the game taking abilty of the 25-06 with the 115 gr Berger VLD was. I answered the question from what I have witnessed in the field and stand by it. If one of my customers came in wanting me to build them an extreme range hunting rifle, the 257 caliber rounds would not even come up in conversation if the hunter wanted to use this rifle at ranges past 500 yards. Why would you select a caliber with such a limitation in bullet selection. DO I feel the 25-06 is a good hunting round? For deer at 400 yards and under I feel it is perhaps the best. The problem lies in that I have yet to witness a 25-06 shoot any bullet heavier then 100 gr's with any real accuracy. By that I mean averaging less then 1/2 moa. AVERAGING, not shooting one 3/8" group at 100 yards and then being labeled a sub 1/2 moa rifle. I feel the 25-06 needs a 1-9 twist to be able to stabilize the 115 gr and higher tipped and VLD designs to produce fine accuracy. It has nothing at all to do with game taking ability of the round or bullet. Its being able to hit your target accurately at extreme range. If a rifle would hold 1/2 moa out to 800 yards then by all means use it on deer. If its a 1 moa rifle with the 115 gr VLD bullets, it has no place being pointed at a game animal at ranges much past 400 yards. And if your going to build a rifle for the sole purpose of hunting big game at ranges past 500 yards, why would you use such a caliber where even the VLD bullets in the .257 family are pretty weak in B.C. value. All I said is that the 7mm is a much better caliber for extreme range hunting as is the 6.5mm. The 30 and 338 rounds are the kings of the hill in game taking ablility. Also, it is in fact the temperary wound channel that damages the most tissue, not a pre-bullet shock wave. It is the outward shock wave as the bullet speeds through the target that forces the tissue outwardly, not ahead. If you do a little research about super sonic shock waves dealing with aircraft you will see that there is very little if any forward shock wave created by a supersonic projectile. Once the bullet slows to sub sonic then you get some but it is lateral displacement of tissue that kill animals. To be honest, and this is again my opinion, but it is nothing but fool hardy to target deer at 500 yards and farther with a 223. Can it be done, someone will always try the extreme. My question is why would you do that when there are so many better options to use. It is usually because someone wants to try their Highpower rifle out on game. A poor quality idea in my mind. Again, a answered the question as I have witnessed things and stand by my opinion, you can do and say what you wish as well and I will do the same with my customers. They have yet to be unsatisfied. Someone hunting deer at 500 yards with a 223 will certainly loose more game then a properly armed long range hunter will. Kirby Allen(50) [/QUOTE]
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115g VLD Berger for deer?
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