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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
115g VLD Berger for deer?
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<blockquote data-quote="chris matthews" data-source="post: 35294" data-attributes="member: 66"><p>I am not going to hammer on fifty driver, but this is Long Range Hunting and there are a lot of guys on here that have taken game at longer ranges with a lot of different calibers. </p><p> Personally I have seen the 25-06 take MO whitetails past the discussed ranges. Seen 'em taken with 223s and 243s at these ranges also. All were one shot kills. The key was conditions were ideal and shot placement was surgical.</p><p> Now onto the Berger bullet. I don't feel lack of expansion is a problem with this bullet. Just the exact opposite has been my experience and why I use MKs. From what I have seen the Berger's are too fragile and will "blow up" (I hate that term) on a shoulder shot and not get any penetration at all.</p><p> A bullet does not have to expand to kill-you guys are forgetting about the shock wave pushed in front of the bullet. It probably does more damage to tissue than the bullet itself does. I agree an expanded bullet will have a bigger shock wave, but how many of these bonded core bullets or partitions do you think expand when shot out of a magnum at deer at 50 yards? Most pencil through but leave a big exit due to the shock wave. We killed a lot of game since the invention of the rifle without these so called "premium" bullets.</p><p> The problem with saying that this bullet expands everytime or this one doesn't or this one is too inconsistent, is no two shots on game are the same. Did it hit bone? Has the deer watered lately or is he a little dehydrated? When did he feed last? What was the angle of the shot? It's not always a perfect 90 degree broadside like a target. Was the animal relaxed or nervous? All of these things effect "terminal ballistics" and will be different in every situation. Studying a bullet's performance on wet paper, clay or water jugs is fine but it's not the real world. Energy figures are fine for an idea but aren't the real world.</p><p>What works for me might not work for some or even most. I build rifles for a living and shoot more than the normal hunter does. I know my rifles and my capabilities. I respect others limits and let it go at that. Bottom line is practice and put the bullet where it belongs and I guarantee you there will be backstraps in the freezer.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="chris matthews, post: 35294, member: 66"] I am not going to hammer on fifty driver, but this is Long Range Hunting and there are a lot of guys on here that have taken game at longer ranges with a lot of different calibers. Personally I have seen the 25-06 take MO whitetails past the discussed ranges. Seen 'em taken with 223s and 243s at these ranges also. All were one shot kills. The key was conditions were ideal and shot placement was surgical. Now onto the Berger bullet. I don't feel lack of expansion is a problem with this bullet. Just the exact opposite has been my experience and why I use MKs. From what I have seen the Berger's are too fragile and will "blow up" (I hate that term) on a shoulder shot and not get any penetration at all. A bullet does not have to expand to kill-you guys are forgetting about the shock wave pushed in front of the bullet. It probably does more damage to tissue than the bullet itself does. I agree an expanded bullet will have a bigger shock wave, but how many of these bonded core bullets or partitions do you think expand when shot out of a magnum at deer at 50 yards? Most pencil through but leave a big exit due to the shock wave. We killed a lot of game since the invention of the rifle without these so called "premium" bullets. The problem with saying that this bullet expands everytime or this one doesn't or this one is too inconsistent, is no two shots on game are the same. Did it hit bone? Has the deer watered lately or is he a little dehydrated? When did he feed last? What was the angle of the shot? It's not always a perfect 90 degree broadside like a target. Was the animal relaxed or nervous? All of these things effect "terminal ballistics" and will be different in every situation. Studying a bullet's performance on wet paper, clay or water jugs is fine but it's not the real world. Energy figures are fine for an idea but aren't the real world. What works for me might not work for some or even most. I build rifles for a living and shoot more than the normal hunter does. I know my rifles and my capabilities. I respect others limits and let it go at that. Bottom line is practice and put the bullet where it belongs and I guarantee you there will be backstraps in the freezer. [/QUOTE]
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115g VLD Berger for deer?
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