You may not like competitive shooters but You have certainly benefited from their quest for extreme accuracy. VLD bullets ,stable powders are just two examples. Scopes that really get the job done.
Are carbon wrapped barrels really worth the extra $$ ?
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Don A Parsons
Well-Known Member
Yuppers,,, it boils down to costs in my books,,, $900 ish in Cnd funds or get a chrome Molly for a 1/3 of that made here in the North... $350 to $400 Cnd funds for a good shooting barrel...
A bit heavier which is ok in my hunting activities and never heavy enough on the range. Ha... That's where my F Class rig comes in handy...
Some shooters like the 5 to 6 lb'ers,,, others like the 9's for the hunting grounds,,, a few lbs over that for other folks...
"""IF""" I was a pack rat hunter only I'd run with a 8 3/4 lb'er all in since this works for me in the hunting fields...
I like the idea of carbon barrels,,, but the costs hold me back on going that route.
A bit heavier which is ok in my hunting activities and never heavy enough on the range. Ha... That's where my F Class rig comes in handy...
Some shooters like the 5 to 6 lb'ers,,, others like the 9's for the hunting grounds,,, a few lbs over that for other folks...
"""IF""" I was a pack rat hunter only I'd run with a 8 3/4 lb'er all in since this works for me in the hunting fields...
I like the idea of carbon barrels,,, but the costs hold me back on going that route.
Okanogan
Well-Known Member
The referenced section of Brian's Vol 2, was by Carl Zant, the Precision Rifle Blog author. For those interested in his analytical review of more recent barrel technologies, the chapter makes an interesting read of something beyond individual experience with carbon barrel performance, or just opinion.
My own take on Zant's published results would be:
- carbon barrels are complicated and different manufacturer's use different methods of construction so lumping them all together for discussion may not be appropriate
- heavy steel barrels heat up and cool down more slowly than carbon, though for carbon you may not feel the heat due to carbon insulating properties
- if I were going to get a carbon barrel on my own build, I would give Christensen barrels a look as the work published showed them both stiffer and having less POI shift as it heated up in the test compared to the Proof barrel tested
- I gave up on fluting my steel barrels based on the results that showed increase likelihood of great POI shift as the barrel heats
- spending the time to obtain a copy of the Vol 2 book and read through it was worthwhile to me in helping to make choices in my custom builds and reloading efforts
distantfoe
Well-Known Member
Haven't messed with any small caliber carbon barrels but have worked with several 28 Nosler and larger calibers.
Two things that stand out in my experience has been the tendencies for groups to move as well as flyers within the group. This is very similar to several button rifled barrels I ran into over the years. Only way I've found to consistently shoot tiny groups has been to wait at least 5 minutes between shots. For myself, this technique produces consistent small groups.
Thinking through the heat discussion, even when wrapped in carbon there's still a steel liner within. When the exterior feels cooler, the liner can be extremely hot.
Two things that stand out in my experience has been the tendencies for groups to move as well as flyers within the group. This is very similar to several button rifled barrels I ran into over the years. Only way I've found to consistently shoot tiny groups has been to wait at least 5 minutes between shots. For myself, this technique produces consistent small groups.
Thinking through the heat discussion, even when wrapped in carbon there's still a steel liner within. When the exterior feels cooler, the liner can be extremely hot.
Richard Bailey
New Member
I have a carbon wrapped by Christiansen Arms and I love it. 300RUM I shoot hand loaded ammo with 180g Barnes TTX and I get 1/4 to 1/2 moa accuracy at 300yds. The advantage to Carbon Wrapped for me is weight. At 73 a couple pounds is a lot to me tromping through the woods. My gun has a timney trigger and a Vortex PST FFP scope as well.
its all simple physics. 1 " dia steel vs 1' dia carbon wrapped steel. The carbon wrapped barrel will be lighter. The inner core of a carbon wrapped barrel by design is thinner and lighter therefore it will heat up faster and cool down faster. The carbon acts as an insulator. Does that make a carbon wrapped barrel more subject to erosion if fired rapidly. I don t know it may. The larger diameter carbon wrapped barrels were conceived to eliminate POI change as the barrel heats up compared to same weight steel barrel of smaller diameter. The initial offerings did not perform well at all. They had to thicken the core to make the barrels more stable so the weight went up. I have a pencil thin barrel on a ultra light receiver. I don t remember the name of the smith but you would send him a brand new receiver and 3k and he would lighten everything up almost to the point of being delicate and send you back a sub 6lb rifle. It was a 280 rem. The cold bore shot was always exact but did not group well. I ran a 280 improved reamer in and it now shoots a very nice 3 shot group " what more do you need for a hunter". The bottom line is " a properly smith rifle with a 26" premium barrel properly stressed relieved can be produce that weighs less than a similar rig with a carbon wrapped barrel". If I were to build a ultra light mountain rifle it would be a short action 6.5 prc with a 26" barrel with a quite muzzle break on a lite action bedded in a ultra light carbon fiber stock. Fitted with a aluminums one piece base/ring set up. and a 1" top Quilty scope having a ballistic reticule scope that matches the hunting load. You should be good to 800 yards with out touching a dial. The only possible advantage I see in a carbon wrapped barrel is if you want to run suppressed. In that case you are not trying to build a 7 lb. rig. My impressions of my ultra lite rig is that it carries very well, hits real hard for 3 very accurate shots. It is not forgiving to shoot, it is so light off- hand it is a bear to manage and to get your wobble to slow down. When it takes off its like a ferrari even from a rest it takes extra care. More than once I started to sell it since i gotten to old to climb mountains.
oja0530
Well-Known Member
I wld say they are just weight saving. Have 2 proof barrels, one in 338 lm, and one in 6 creed.
adam32
Well-Known Member
Yup and that technology was stagnant for decades until LR hunters came around.
If anything, BR guys should be thanking LR hunters (like the ones I previously listed) for giving them dozens and dozens of better options in nearly everything...barrels, scopes, powders, bullets, etc...because quite simply, many of the companies now in business wouldn't be in business if it weren't for hunters. There isn't enough demand from the BR crowd...which is why they stayed stagnant for so long shooting their jaugernauts and matchkings.
CNY Yote Hunter
Well-Known Member
Havent read all the comments yet but my experience is the same as most, no difference in accuracy, no clue on barrel cooling or retaining heat cause I've never checked. One thing I love that I havent read is you dont need to worry about dinging it on a tree or scratching it which makes it a more ideal hunting rifle in my opinion. Also dont nee to worry about oiling, another added bonus. Just my 2 cents
ADAM 32 Most long range hunters fire maybe a 100 rounds a season {I am being generous here} In comparasion to competitive shooter sending that or more down range a weekend. Competive shooters may go through several barrels a year and often have a car load of different rifle for different games. The ratio of lr hunter to hunters is maybe 5000 to one. You think too highly of what we do and how much influence LR hunters have. Go to most hunting forums and mention you are planning to take elk or deer at a 1000 yards and see what the reaction of the hunting community will be. Thanks to tv shows devoted to the subject they are more accepting now than ever but are mostly against it. Its all driven by money and exposer. The first vld bullets by several makers were strictly match grade until burger started developing hunting rounds.
Rick Richard
Well-Known Member
I don't know what came first the chicken or the egg, but I am happy we have poultry.
Now time to get back on track with this thread.
Now time to get back on track with this thread.
5RWill
Well-Known Member
I can't speak to thermodynamics or the elastic modulus of carbon fiber i'm not an engineer. Trying to retain thickness whilst still keeping a rifle lightweight is basically what the CF barrels are for IMHO. The way i look at is that i built my dad a rifle that hit target weight 9lbs without the can and bipod with a 3B, spiral fluted, and cerakoted. After all was said and done that barrel is nearly as expensive as my proof .284 blank sitting here ready to go on my 7SS.
The other difference is balance. If you've ever picked up a 3B compared to a sendero or sendero lite from Proof while the weight difference isn't that much the rifle seems to balance much better and isn't so front heavy.
Had i had it to do over again i'd have gotten Dad a sendero lite for his 6.5 SAUM, even at 9lbs he doesn't really care for the weight, but he does love the rifle.
The other difference is balance. If you've ever picked up a 3B compared to a sendero or sendero lite from Proof while the weight difference isn't that much the rifle seems to balance much better and isn't so front heavy.
Had i had it to do over again i'd have gotten Dad a sendero lite for his 6.5 SAUM, even at 9lbs he doesn't really care for the weight, but he does love the rifle.
