will a 7mm work for me?

[liltank]

Friends don't let friends develop canonitis.

Can I add this to my signature?

Tank

 

[robbobsam]

Coming from the UK I have never hunted bears, however I have seen many in the zoo and they are huge mammals with massive teeth and claws which could rip your average hunter apart in seconds.

With that in mind if I were lucky enough to hunt these creatures one day I would want to know the rifle I have in my hands was well capable of dispatching the animal whether I got a good shot in or a not so good shot in.

I don't think you can be over gunned if hunting for something that can fight back and maybe eat you !!!

Maybe I am wrong here but as a completely inexperienced bear hunter a .338 Lap Mag with 300grain bullets and 5000ft/lb sounds a good starting point to me.

I am with Liltank, I don't want to find myself in a fair fight with a bear, I just want to smoke his *** !!!

 

[WildRose]

A brown bear is only dangerous within paws reach. A 7mag has plenty at that range.


Friends don't let friends develop canonitis.

By all means feel free to hunt them with it.

Me, I'll stick to my .300 Rum and 45/70. When it comes to shooting things that can get back up and eat me overkill is a good thing.

 

[dakor]

It all depends on if you reload and what kind of recoil you can handle. John Burns rolled a grizzly up in Alaska with a 7mm of some sort and a 180 Berger over 600 yards on best of the west so it does work. If you don't think the 7mm will do the job I would not even bother with the 300 rum and look at a 338 of some kind or the 375 Ultra mag. I have never noticed any killing difference on whitetails and Elk with my 7mm mag, 300 wsm, 300 win, and 300 rum. I will say the 7mm STW with the 180 Berger does stand out in killing over the others I have just mentioned. If it was me and I was going to hunt the big bears at long range the 375 Ultra mag would probably be my choice loaded with 300gr Sierra SBT's or 300gr Nosler Accubonds for shooting 800 yards or less. If I was going to shoot farther then that I would look at some of the custom bullets like cutting edge bullets or the 350gr Sierra Matchking. Reading through the posts I would like to know what kind of Moose is walking around out there where a 7mm mag cannot kill them at long range? The 7mm mag works on Elk to 1000 yards or more and Elk seem to soak up lots of lead where a Moose seem to tip over a lot easier on a good hit.

 

[WildRose]

It all depends on if you reload and what kind of recoil you can handle. John Burns rolled a grizzly up in Alaska with a 7mm of some sort and a 180 Berger over 600 yards on best of the west so it does work. If you don't think the 7mm will do the job I would not even bother with the 300 rum and look at a 338 of some kind or the 375 Ultra mag. I have never noticed any killing difference on whitetails and Elk with my 7mm mag, 300 wsm, 300 win, and 300 rum. I will say the 7mm STW with the 180 Berger does stand out in killing over the others I have just mentioned. If it was me and I was going to hunt the big bears at long range the 375 Ultra mag would probably be my choice loaded with 300gr Sierra SBT's or 300gr Nosler Accubonds for shooting 800 yards or less. If I was going to shoot farther then that I would look at some of the custom bullets like cutting edge bullets or the 350gr Sierra Matchking. Reading through the posts I would like to know what kind of Moose is walking around out there where a 7mm mag cannot kill them at long range? The 7mm mag works on Elk to 1000 yards or more and Elk seem to soak up lots of lead where a Moose seem to tip over a lot easier on a good hit.

Alaskan Moose can easily weigh twice what the average Elk in the lower 48 weighs. The 7mm Mag would not be my preferred weapon on them either beyond about 400-500yds.

Perfectly placed shots at long range are not the norm for about 95% of people who attempt it.

 

[theflyonthewall]

Wild Rose.....I was wondering when SHOT PLACEMENT was going to come into this....if ever. In my book, shot placement is EVERYTHING. What good is a giant magnum round like the 375 RUM, if you can't shoot it (without ANY flinch at all) due to the recoil?

Personally, I'd rather have that smaller caliber (in this case the 7mm) and place that first shot perfectly. If I have to place another, so be it. But I D@MN-SURE do not want a marginal hit on a "now ticked off" bear.

My point.......never attempt to shoot more gun at dangerous game than you can comfortably shoot at the range.

Now if he has plenty of money to burn on a good muzzle brake............that changes the game.

 

[WildRose]

Wild Rose.....I was wondering when SHOT PLACEMENT was going to come into this....if ever. In my book, shot placement is EVERYTHING. What good is a giant magnum round like the 375 RUM, if you can't shoot it (without ANY flinch at all) due to the recoil?

Personally, I'd rather have that smaller caliber (in this case the 7mm) and place that first shot perfectly. If I have to place another, so be it. But I D@MN-SURE do not want a marginal hit on a "now ticked off" bear.

My point.......never attempt to shoot more gun at dangerous game than you can comfortably shoot at the range.

Now if he has plenty of money to burn on a good muzzle brake............that changes the game.

I don't know him. I've never seen him shoot, I have no reference point to make a determination that he can place the shot perfectly. I know that at ranges beyond 600yds 99% of hunters will be incapale of placing the shot perfectly or reliably, much less repeatedly.

Thus particularly since we're talking about large, dangerous, and hard to kill bears, I'm not going to suggest using something I consider to have the bare (no pun intended) minimum energy on target to produce a fatal wound.

In the same sort of situation I flat wouldn't pull the trigger unless I had very high confidence of placing the shot perfectly but I know few people have that kind of discipline.

I'm just not going to recommend something to a stranger that could very well get them killed.

 

[theflyonthewall]

For sure!

I was just glad that shot placement had finally entered into the discussion

 

[Lyons7STW]

I have no experience with brown bears and will not relay anything I do not know from being present or an extremely reliable source.
My dad took a canadian moose with a 7STW @ over 600 yards with 160 grn accubonds.
A couple weeks ago he took a shiras moose (smaller cousin) at 50 yards with a 338 win mag and 210 grn accubond. The STW was a bang flop. The 338 took a second to realize he was dead. But he was just the same. We have killed black bear and elk with both rifles from 200 to 600+

Either is capable.if all goes as planned. Either can be lacking, if it does not. Get a repeater in the largest caliber you are comfortable with. Take only shots you are confident in. With elk, black bear, moose, all the truly big game we hunt, we Shoot Until They Stay Down.

Does Alaska not have a .30 cal and up rule for the big stuff?

 

[fmajor]

Initially, I wasn't going to engage this discussion because for the pure, simple fact that the only thing i've hunted are whitetails. While occasionally tenacious, they lack teeth, claws and at least 300lbs to be anywhere near what revvystroke asked about.

Also, as is always a primary consideration, not much replaces good shot placement - at least until we get into 20mm and larger

Further, excellent bullet choice must also be a primary consideration as well as enough HP to get the job done.

Given the question about 7mm being enough, it makes perfectly good sense to me that anything thats big and powerful w/claws and teeth is on the list for a one-rifle battery, a minimum is going to be .338 cal.

I don't care that a 7mm *can* do the job on these big critters (and i really, really like the 7mm caliber, but for light-ish skinned/non-'dense' animals). I want something that will flat-out knock that bear on his ear - no questions or reservations. If it will knock the stuffing out of a big bear, then it will certainly have enough juice for a moose.

To me, as i've beening planning/re-planning my own battery, a 7mm RM is definitely a primary in my line-up (despite some other excellent high-power 7mm's). However, if/ when i ever get a chance for larger game (thinking specifically big bears), then a big .338 must be added. I'd probably go with a 338RUM since factory ammo should be reasonable to locate if my handloads got lost.

Also, range does come into account to the extent that rifle form inhibits the type of hunting. Its hard handling a (scoped) long-range rifle in thick, dark foliage. If that terrain were my hunting area then a shorter rifle would be on the list .45-70 Marlin lever-gun with heavy loading or a .375 Ruger Alaskan. Something that, in close-quarters, will *really* put the advantange in my court.

 

[dakor]

Wildrose,

Body weight has nothing to do with toughness and for all the Moose I have seen shot they don't seem to take up much lead at all. My uncle shot his with a 38 Special at 50 yards and it was a bang flop type of deal. Figure that energy out at 50 yards with 157gr bullet. Now that is one example I know but a friend of mine dropped one in his tracks with a bow and arrow? I have seen Elk take hits with some big calibers at long and short range and not even flinch and walk away to be found dead. Another guy I worked with shot a Moose at 300 + yards with a 7mm mag and cheap federal factory ammo and that Moose folded up like a house of cards. So in my experience Moose do not seem very hard to kill and I sure would not worry about a 7mm mag being too small on one at long range.

 

[chucknbach]

I was thinking the 7 mag was overkill.

I don't know him. I've never seen him shoot, I have no reference point to make a determination that he can place the shot perfectly. I know that at ranges beyond 600yds 99% of hunters will be incapale of placing the shot perfectly or reliably, much less repeatedly.

Thus particularly since we're talking about large, dangerous, and hard to kill bears, I'm not going to suggest using something I consider to have the bare (no pun intended) minimum energy on target to produce a fatal wound.

In the same sort of situation I flat wouldn't pull the trigger unless I had very high confidence of placing the shot perfectly but I know few people have that kind of discipline.

I'm just not going to recommend something to a stranger that could very well get them killed.

I would think your advise should be "Don't hunt bears"! or no advise at all. Not good sending an inexperienced shooter out after brown bears with a howitzer in a shoulder fire configuration. A bear would make short work of someone who nick it in the butt then just laid there on the ground with a concussion and dislocated shoulder.


Bear minimum would be a few good dogs and a spear.

 

[WildRose]

I was thinking the 7 mag was overkill.



I would think your advise should be "Don't hunt bears"! or no advise at all. Not good sending an inexperienced shooter out after brown bears with a howitzer in a shoulder fire configuration. A bear would make short work of someone who nick it in the butt then just laid there on the ground with a concussion and dislocated shoulder.


Bear minimum would be a few good dogs and a spear.

If I thought he was an inexperienced shooter I'd not encourage him to go hunting alone for anything.

From his OP he's obviously however not inexperienced.

Feel free to go hunting big brown bears with a spear and your dogs but I'd encourage you to make sure your affairs are in order and your Life Insurance paid up first.

 

[WildRose]

Wildrose,

Body weight has nothing to do with toughness and for all the Moose I have seen shot they don't seem to take up much lead at all. My uncle shot his with a 38 Special at 50 yards and it was a bang flop type of deal. Figure that energy out at 50 yards with 157gr bullet. Now that is one example I know but a friend of mine dropped one in his tracks with a bow and arrow? I have seen Elk take hits with some big calibers at long and short range and not even flinch and walk away to be found dead. Another guy I worked with shot a Moose at 300 + yards with a 7mm mag and cheap federal factory ammo and that Moose folded up like a house of cards. So in my experience Moose do not seem very hard to kill and I sure would not worry about a 7mm mag being too small on one at long range.

Body mass has everything to do with proper caliber and bullet selection. It takes a given amount of energy for a projectile to pass through a given amount of tissue.

There's a reason bullet makers spend millions developing bullets that can reliably perform on dense thick bodied game.

You can kill a Grizzly Bear or even a Rino with a spear IF you can put it in exactly the right spot.

In reality however those golden BB shots don't happen every day and as a result lots of game goes wasted. Of course in the case of large Grizzly Bears, there's also a good chance that the wounded bear will get up and eat you if you approach too soon.

I've shot 500lbs plus hogs with a Ruger .204 because I knew I could place the shot exactly correctly. I've also seen big hogs shot with a 7mm Mag or .300wm shot broadside run more than a half mile and still have plenty of fight left in them when we got there.

Being able to reliably, repeatedly and consistently put the required amount of energy and penetration on the right spot is indeed the key to success especially when were are talking long range hunting.