Why Remingtom Actions?!?!?

Cap[tain Stubing,

Since you're so close to Ben Avery, why not just head over there and check out some of their matches. They just wrapped up the SW Long Range Nationals about a week or two back, and had over 200 shooters from 32 states. Great match, very well run, and they even did a wind class and fed us lunch afterwards. They shot prone, sling, F (open) and F-TR classes, so there was pretty much something for everyone. Check it out on the Berger website, as they run a couple others throughout the course of the year.
 
Cap[tain Stubing,

Since you're so close to Ben Avery

Close if you live out of state. I'm on the other side of the city and it takes a good hour to get there 2 hours if there's traffic. I have wanted to get out there some day though. I'm only about 10 minutes from Rio Salado (I call it Usery Park).
 
I'm a Win 70 fan and own 700's, Stiller's, etc. They're all more than adequate for a whole lot of hunters. Some are better for particular purposes as discussed above.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Savage. They won't win any beauty contest IMO. But, they shoot well and are easily customized/accurzied by a good smith or even DIY.

Browning, Weatherby, Howa, Sako, Tikka are all good in their own right. But, each one has quirks or limitted parts availability that makes them less attractive to work on.

-- Richard
 
I am by no means an expert but, from what i have learned is that when remington came out with the 700 they offered the same or better accuracy as winchester but at a cheaper price because the action and machinging to make it was cheaper. When winchester re-tooled their facility in 1964 to try to reduce production cost the quality fell along with it. I think that caused many to distrust winchester and never look back.
(928) 772-4060 thats the phone number to Classic Barrel & Gunworks of Prescott Az. The owner is Dan Pedersen, and even though i've never had any work done by him i've heard nothing but great things. He is also an instructor for the yavapai college gunsmithing progam which is supposed to be one of the best in the nation.
 
When winchester re-tooled their facility in 1964 to try to reduce production cost the quality fell along with it.
I don't think so. The hammer forged barrels were more accurate than the previous broach rifled ones but yes, they weren't quite up to Remingtons. The post '64 actions had better triggers but their bolts didn't work quite as smooth in rapid fire situations, but that improved when the put the guide slot in the bottom bolt lug to ride in the rail on the right side of the receiver.
 
Bart, are you saying that the Winchester actions are stronger than the Rem?
No, the Rem's are stronger. I read something years ago with the bursting limit of popular factory actions. They were about 140,000 psi for the Remington 7XX and 125,000 for the Winchester 70. Not an issue for most folks 'cause cartridge brass starts to extrude into the bolt face holes and cutouts at about 80,000 psi (65,000 CUP) SAAMI specs for peak pressure's below that.

I saw a low-number M1903 Springfield action that was used in pressure tests all the way to destruction. The folks couldn't put enough rifle powder (IMR4198) into the .30-06 cases under 172-gr. bullets to blow the rifle. Its bolt had to be pounded open for the last several loads. It finally blew with a case full of Bullseye pistol powder. So much for those "unsafe" low number M1903's.
 
Captain Stubing, here's the finer details of both the Remington 7xx and Winchester 70 (and its 670 & 770 versions) compared from what I've observed with both of mine as well as many others on the rifle ranges.....

Firing pins....The Winchester one can be replaced without tools. With a hammer, drift pin, a penny and pair of pliers all on a table or something, the one in a Remington can be replaced.

Extractors....Remington ones broke a lot and needed a few tools to both remove and replace. The early Winchester ones could be replaced without tools but those made from 1964 with the push feed bolts need a paper clip or a pencil to replace it as well as its spring and plunger; very reliable in operation and rarely, if ever, broke.

Box magazines....Winchester ones fed the most reliable but needed their follower top ribs for .308 and .30-06 rounds filed to a 45 degree angle to prevent round stacking when charged with 5 rounds in a hurry. Remington ones oft times hung up rounds at the top front of the magazine box.

Safeties....Remington's early safety design was poor and didn't lock the firing pin directly so it caused too many accidental firings. And with the safety on, the bolt couldn't operate to unload the magazine. Its designer came up with a fix that cost an extra 6 cents per trigger to make but Remington chose not to do it. Winchester's was the most reliable as it locked the firing pin back, plus, the safety can be engaged then the bolt operated to unload the magazine.

Recoil lug....Winchester's would take the force of a .458 Win. Mag. in hot temperatures all year long wearing out half a dozen barrels and never fail 'cause it's intregal with the receiver. Remington's is a separate piece that has bent forward from 400 rounds or so of .300 magnum use.

Rear tang....Remington tangs are not all that stuff; they've bent with too much torque on the rear stock screw. Winchester's are rather strong and hold up well with even tight torqued rear screws.

Bolt operation....Winchester's bolt is longer and better designed for most humans to reliably operate it in rapid fire situations without miissing a stroke. Remington bolts are too short and sometimes their knob's missed in a quick grab for a quick second shot so they need to be lengthened half an inch. Winchester's claw extractor and external ejector in their classic actions allows fired cases to be pulled all the way out for easy removal when single loading while the Remington clip extractor and spring loaded plunger ejector flip the case out as soon as its mouth clears the receiver ring just like the post '64 push feed Winchesters.

PS: Yes, I like Winnies. But a good friend who fired the last shot to win the 1972 Olympic Games' last 300 meter free rifle match in Munich, Germany (he shot a 10 after taking apart his Rem. 40X and fixing something then getting it back together just a few seconds before time ran out) loves his Remmy.
 
Close if you live out of state. I'm on the other side of the city and it takes a good hour to get there 2 hours if there's traffic. I have wanted to get out there some day though. I'm only about 10 minutes from Rio Salado (I call it Usery Park).
Captain - check on desert sharpshooters for a schedule frop RIO. i started shooted in their 500 yard matches and learned a lot. close to you too.
 
Captain - at rio i shoot against savages all the time. it is fun. the ones to beat are the customs- bat, neskika others........
 
This might be the question of the hour that will spark some good debate or may seal the deal:

If you had to buy a brand new, off the shelf rifle to start with, what would it be? I don't want to have to go through the trouble of looking for an old rifle because the action they made before I was born is better than now is my point.

Rem, Win, Weatherby, Savage, Tikka, Sako, Ruger, Browning, I'm not familiar with Howa but I'll throw that in there as well.
 
This might be the question of the hour that will spark some good debate or may seal the deal:

If you had to buy a brand new, off the shelf rifle to start with, what would it be?
Savage. One of them that best suits your objective should do just fine.

Then buy a set of Redding Full Bushing Dies with the bushing diameter about 2 ro 3 thousandths smaller than a loaded round's neck diameter. These are the dies Sierra Bullets uses to test their bullets in reloaded cases. Yes, they get best accuracy with full length sized bottleneck cases. Sierra uses standard Redding full length dies for cases the Full Bushing ones aren't made for.
 
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