Why Remingtom Actions?!?!?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Captain Stubing, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. Captain Stubing

    Captain Stubing Member

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    1. I have observed that the majority of custom rifles are built on the Remington action, why? What's wrong with Ruger, Winchester, or Weatherby? Back in the 80's, Sakko was the optimum action for custom guns.

    2. I have a rifle that I want some custimization done to, where do I start? Obviously I can't say I want the least expensive...EVERYONE wants it done cheap. From all I read, the first thing to do (besides the basics like floating and trigger work) would be to change the barrel out. True?I live in Mesa, AZ.

    3. How much does it take to change the .338 WM to an Edge or Lapua?

    Arrrgggghhhh...so many questions and the internet isn't showing me what I want!

    I live in Mesa, AZ and I know there HAS to be some good gunsmiths around here I can talk to.
     
  2. crowsnest2002

    crowsnest2002 Well-Known Member

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    I can offer the aftermarket products available are nice.
     

  3. 7stw

    7stw Well-Known Member

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    I think the actions are easy to work with, and ARE the strongest action for the money. There are guys who specilize in Winchester actions which are great and strong actions as well. Triggers are readily avail for the remingtons from various manufactures, and a lot of gun makers and custom shops have the tooling avail. I also think that it is because they are so much more available the some of the others. I hear you about the Sako action. One of the, if not the finest and superbly accurate rifles that I know exists is built on a Sako Finnbear action. Anything inside of 1000 yds is in GRAVE danger! Some actions need more tuning and are harder and more time consuming, therefore, I believe that is why most are built on Remington actions ( mine are ) . I have a freind that just had a rifle blow up on him. They figured out that load in the rifle was unfortunately substituted with a FASTER burning powder. ( MUCH FASTER). Long story short, it was figured to have unleashed about 120,000 psi of energy. It pushed the bolt back, and curled the shroud, but it did not rupture. It was shown to a well known gunsmith, and was quoted to say that if it had been any other brand of actin, the bolt would have sheared THROUGH the shroud, and traveled straight back into the shooters face, with way more than just lethal force. That could be a factor . Hope this helps. Don't be frustrated, there are some VERY smart people here. ( present company excluded) LOL. AIM SMALL, MISS SMALL. lightbulb gun) 7 STW.
     
  4. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    In the shooting sports, most folks choose any piece of hardware 'cause they think it's the best. They typically base their reasoning on what someone else does with it, and those who do the best with it blaze a trail that all the other "believers" follow.

    Remington's model 722 round actions were used in many benchrest matches to win and set records back in the '50's. As the groups they shot were the smallest recorded, well then, the Remington was considered the best to get. And a Remington guy finally made button rifling easy and cheap to do, so the Remington barrels began to shoot very well indeed. And in all sorts of bore and cartridge sizes. This perpetuated even more folks to buy Remington centerfire rifles. Plus, Remington offered barreled actions. All the stuff that most folks choose to relate to ended up being a Remington.

    Ruger rifles have never done well in the "best accuracy" and "best reliability" world; part of it's their action and the other is their barrels. Nor have the Weatherby ones for the same reasons. Yes, I know there's a few tack drivers with these names on them but they're in the minority.

    Winchester Model 70 actions have always been far superior to the Remingtons for several reasons, especially for the larger belted magnums. They were favored in high power competition for reliability and being much stiffer than the Remingtons. Plus, they held epoxy bedding better than the Remingtons. But they were never offered for sale alone nor even barreled actions. Their factory barrels have been good, especially the later hammer forged ones made after the mid 1960's. But they never quite caught up with the Remingtons. I'm convinced it was the so-so accuracy of most of their factory barrels that make's 'em not popular for custom rifles.
     
  5. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    The remingtons are so popular because of all the aftermarket products available that support it. You can rechamber to the RUM case but will probably need to do some rail and magazine work. Wrong boltface for the Lapua. I would suggest the 338 RUM instead of the 338-300 RUM because it is slightly shorter with less feeding problems and all components are over the counter. Both shoot the same numbers.
     
  6. Gene

    Gene Well-Known Member

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    Remington actions became popular because the design is round, where others are square. Round actions bed easier and shoot better. Today, there are many round actions. In benchrest, almost every custom action is round: Farley, BAT, Hall, Panda, Borden, Nesika, Stiller, etc.

    In addition, there are numerous aftermarket parts available today based on the Remington action.
     
  7. roninflag

    roninflag Well-Known Member

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    CAPTAIN- THERE is a gunsmith at th rio salado range. others pm me. roninflag
     
  8. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    Few folks these days remember the problems that came about shooting heavy recoiling cartridges from epoxy bedded round actions. The receiver twisted out of good contact after a couple hundred shots. Military teams tried using 2" long recoil lugs on their Rem. receivers but it didn't work. After putting a flat bottom and sides aluminum sleeve on them, they shot very well. They copied this idea from benchresters having the same problems. No such problems with Winchester 70 actions.

    I don't know of any round action shooting rounds burning more than 60 grains of powder pushing heavy bullets that's put 30 consecutive shots inside 6 inches at 1000 yards. Win. 70's have. The Win. 70 ones are near 3 times stiffer than the Rem. 700 ones, but that may not matter to some folks.
     
  9. Captain Stubing

    Captain Stubing Member

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    Great info guys. The reason I have an issue with the Remington is because I've had two Remingtons (700 LSS in 300WSM & 700 BDL in .338) that had HORRIBLE chambers and I couldn't reload for them. Full length resize, neck trimming, you name it I tried it. Sold both of them because of it and swore I'd never buy another. You're changing my opinion fast though. Granted, the chamber has nothing to do with the action but it makes it painful for me to give them any money. I've always liked the feel of a Remington but the real joy for me and my father is getting together, reloading, and talking about the days in the field.

    I'm a fan of the .338 but I'm looking more and more at the 7mm STW. Especially here in AZ!! I saw that you can get a factory made 7mm STW from Remington to start. That way I'll have a good base rifle to use until my wallet grows fatter (read sneak money away from the wife!) to customize.
     
  10. Captain Stubing

    Captain Stubing Member

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    Bart, are you saying that the Winchester actions are stronger than the Rem? I wonder why nobody is switching to them if that's the case. Probably because there are way too many Remington parts out there now and the cost is higher. Didn't Winchester go back to the Mauser type action? I remember the big news that they were going back to the (pre-64?) action back in the late 80's/or 90's.
     
  11. Gene

    Gene Well-Known Member

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    Most problems with the newer Remingtons, is the barrels. I have a new 700 .22-250 that groups poorly, no matter the bullet or load, and blues badly after just a few shots. There are many better quality rifles on the market today, some much cheaper, i.e., Savage.
     
  12. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    7mm's often surface in conversations about "the" caliber for long range use. So does the .338, especially Lapua's magnum cartridge. But the 30 calibers seem to do best in 1K-yard benchrest when conditions ain't perfect (which most shooting situations happen in). And Lapua's .338 magnum didn't do as well in the military's Precision Sniper Rifle accuracy tests as the .300 Win. Mag. which was the most accurate at all ranges from 1000 to 1500 yards. Why the US Army continues to pursue the .338 Lapua round is beyond me.

    Note that a .300 Win. Mag. barrel will last quite a bit longer than the 7mm STW.
     
  13. Kevin Thomas

    Kevin Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Captian Stubing,

    Not necessarily stronger (the M700 is a very strong action), but stiffer. The M70 action weighs nearly a full pound more than an M700. This was what originally lead to their being used in applications where weight was a limitation; silhouette shooting being one, BR competition being another. You virtually NEVER see M70s used in silhouette competition, while M700s dominate that game. The cartridges used there are generally fairly mild, and don't have a tendency to torque their way out of the bedding when fired. Ditto for the Bench Rest community. Mild cartridges, weight restirctions that limit the total weight of the gun, ready to run. In Highpower and Long Range Prone, we have no such weight restirctions. Back when the magnums were the norm for this type of competition, the M70s were the standard that all others were judged by . . . and you didn't see many others! It has just been within the last decade or so that we've seen the switch away from the 30 cal magnums to milder cartridges like the 6.5x284. There, the flat bottomed receivers of the M70s resisted the torquing problems so common to the M700s. Since the shift to milder rounds, this has become less of a problem, and we're seeing far more Remingtons on the line these days.

    For across the course use, the round bottom receiver issue wasn't so much of a problem (most used the 308s, and even lighter cartridges starting about 10-15 years ago). There, it was a question of bolt throw. Frankly, there's not a sweeter throwing bolt than a well used M70 when you're dealing with rapid fire strings. Gotta love 'em for that alone!

    The real shift to the Remingtons (IMHO), has more to do with economics. Many folks gloss over the fact that Mike Walker designed the M700 as an extremely inexpensive, easy to make action. The M70 on the other hand, is an expensive action to produce, with a lot of machine operations going into them. Takes time, costs more, and those costs have to be passed on to the customer. Then we have the M700. They are dirt cheap to make, very strong, have very quick lock times and generally do about all a shooter could ask of an action. Properly blueprinted and squared, they can be phenomenally accurate, and yes, everyone in the competitive world makes aftermarket stuff for them to adapt them to almost any conceivable application. How do you not love an action like that?

    I'll reserve comment about the 338 Lapua, since I'm very admittedly biased.
     
  14. Captain Stubing

    Captain Stubing Member

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    Interesting. I guess what it all boils down to is that I NEED MORE MONEY!!!

    Actually, I need to attend the local long distance shoots @ Rio Salado and ask if I can get behind some different rifles and calibers to see what I may want. I'm trying not to be too quick to pull the trigger on this next rifle.

    and yes.....the punn IS intended!!! :D