Why do snipers use .308 with so many other options??? What is best re

[CatShooter]

Re: Why do snipers use .308 with so many other options??? What is best

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What I cannot comprehend, is why say, the best shooters in the world, with UNLIMITED resources (military) choose the calibres they choose.

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...well, I would firstly say that resources are not unlimited;

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Well said... the resources ARE limited - it often takes 7 to 9 months to get a M40 or M24 repaired, and even the slightest repair (adjust a trigger) must be done by an armorer, not a shooter in the field that could do it in 20 minutes.

Hobby shooters poor over gun catalogs and ballistic charts, and dream of a NEW rifle next year... the military does not play that fantasy game.

If they have a billion rounds of '06 in inventory, they don't switch to a new round that will give them an increase of 5% to 8% in range.

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[BountyHunter]

The 308/7.62 Nato is not the BEST round out there. It is a good round and is the standard round for NATO for a long time.

Most of the machine guns are 7.62 and that means availability of ammo. Not match grade, but available. MG "overhead fire" ammo is the next best to match grade.

Most military snipers are shooting at ranges that the 308 is perfectly acceptable

Most of the top end tactical/sniper comps now are being won with the 260 or the 260 AI. Flatter, less wind and less recoil and same good barrel life.

For serious LR social work, the 300 Win Mag, 338 Lapua, 408, and 50 cal are available for the guys who normally need them on the Spec Ops side. We were using the 338 in the 80s in SF.

Most services are testing the 338 and couple others as a new LR sniper round, but the 308 will still be utilized.

BH

 

[CatShooter]

Re: Why do snipers use .308 with so many other options??? What is best

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Most of the top end tactical/sniper comps now are being won with the 260 or the 260 AI. Flatter, less wind and less recoil and same good barrel life.

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The 260 has MUCH LESS barrel life - many of my friends shoot it in tactical matches, and short barrel life is their main bitch.

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[ppro]

Re: Why do snipers use .308 with so many other options??? What is best

"BUT... is the 308 the most inherently accurate cartridge available??? Ballisticly speaking??? Was so much effort put into this cartridge because it is inherently accurate or because it is NATO?"

Short answer is no...it is not the most inherently accurate.

For most inherently accurate, the data should be available from shooters at oh....probably benchrest.com . The bench rest publications have published the data kept by the bench rest associations over the years.

Most accurate has changed over the years 222 was most accurate ppc lineup was most accurate....etc. etc. but, when you start adding distance, and wind and all that.....things change a bit.....what's super accurate at 100 just may not have the umph for 800 1000.......and then again the 6br holds it's own pretty well at 1000 when the winds down.

Next thing you know, your considering foot pounds or pounds foot of energy or some such, to take down game at farther distances and it all changes again...

It's one great big series of compromises or trade-offs....you just need to choose the one that give up what you feel is less important, to get the features you value most.

That sometimes puts a small stack of cartridges in front of you to consider but....aren't choices wonderful !

Not that many years ago, there was just a fraction of the cartridges there are now to choose from.

So take you time, look them over and buy one. You aren't going to be terribly wrong in any case. Then, you can do what we do....buy more guns ! Buy specialized guns, buy guns for short range, guns for long range, ahhhhh.

Life is good.

Paul

 

[Michael Eichele]

Re: Why do snipers use .308 with so many other options??? What is best

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of shooters who think everything is superior to the 308. Paper ballistics meen nothing. Anybody who has ever owned and shot a 308 knows it can hold its own and is alot easier to shoot good groups at distance with it that alot of other rounds. How often do 308 shooters have a bad day at the range? I know when I am having a bad day at the range, I pull out the 308 and I instantly start having a good shooting day.

I know this doesnt answer the question, but a few points are below.

1. Mild recoil.

2. Extreemly accurate.

3. Short action for ease of repeating under fire.

4. Lighter ammo.

5. Very lethal (this is supose to be a secret, the 308 is NOT suppose to be able to kill a human or deer letalone a moose)

6. A very proven round on the battlefield.

7. Tons of available data and load options.

These are only a few reasons it is in the sniping comunity.

 

[ppro]

Re: Why do snipers use .308 with so many other options??? What is best

miechele

I didn't get what you did out of superlite 17's post...his was really, more a very general query....why do people shoot what they shoot basically.
Beyond that, no one was bashing the .308 rather generally discussing choices.

Paul

 

[roninflag]

Re: Why do snipers use .308 with so many other options??? What is best

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It never ceases to amaze me the amount of shooters who think everything is superior to the 308. Paper ballistics meen nothing. Anybody who has ever owned and shot a 308 knows it can hold its own and is alot easier to shoot good groups at distance with it that alot of other rounds. How often do 308 shooters have a bad day at the range? I know when I am having a bad day at the range, I pull out the 308 and I instantly start having a good shooting day.

I know this doesnt answer the question, but a few points are below.

1. Mild recoil.

2. Extreemly accurate.

3. Short action for ease of repeating under fire.

4. Lighter ammo.

5. Very lethal (this is supose to be a secret, the 308 is NOT suppose to be able to kill a human or deer letalone a moose)

6. A very proven round on the battlefield.

7. Tons of available data and load options.

These are only a few reasons it is in the sniping comunity.

[/ QUOTE ] any marksman i have ever heard that has shot at long range a 308 and then 6.5-284 are just amazed " i got to get one of these" 1. recoil: the M-24 weigh 12.1+ pounds without a scope; the M40 weigh 16.5+ pounds recoil is not a factor these are trained and trained and trained marksman. maybe if they went to a 300 win but not a 6.5-06; 6.5-284 or a 7mmwsm. 2. accurracy: they use a schneider match barrel and trued remington 700 action a fully adjusted remington trigger ; are you saying the 308 with a hart barrel or schneier is more accurate than a 6.5-284?? 3. short action- the M40 is a LONG action and much more suited to a 6.5-06 . the m-24 is a short action but their mission is not high fire rate it is one shot and go. 4. a the difference in weight between a 6.5-06 and a 308 round is virtually nothing. 5. lethal- the ballistics tables tell it all a 308 175 grain at 2575; versus a 142 6.5 at 2950 there is no comparison 6.5-06 way more lethal at longer range. 6 proven- the 175 load at 2575 which is a red line load MAY stay super sonic to 1000 depending how much the gun has been fired, elevation, temp ect. 7. tons of data- i don't see how that is relevant they shoot one load the 175 match king. these are trained marksman the 308 is terrible at 1000 yards compared to a 7wsm with a 180 berger; the 6.5-284 or 6.5-06 with a 140 berger or a 142 match king. the reason they use it is that is what they have . the 175 was an attempt to get it off its knees. the flatter trajectory and less wind deflection of the few catrides i mentioned( there are many others) is HUGE compared to the 308; making hits at long range easier and more of a sure thing. roninflag

 

[hvy barrel]

Re: Why do snipers use .308 with so many other options??? What is best

Look into one of the 6.5mm calibers. You might be surprised at how close they would come to filling your requirements.

As to whether the M24 used by the US Army is a long or short action. According to an article in the American Rifleman a few years ago, I believe, it is a long action. I can't remember the month & year the article was written off the top of my head. I will try to find my copy of it & post the month & year later.

 

[ppro]

Re: Why do snipers use .308 with so many other options??? What is best

Ya, I love my .308 as much as most. Son set a national record in junior highpower Silhouette with one. I used one professionally, shot competition with one, and have shot more game and long range with the .308 Winchester than any other cartridge. It's truly a great all a rounder with good barrel life etc. etc.

That being said, I am a 6.5 guy. 6.5 is my favorite.

Paul

 

[jb1000br]

Re: Why do snipers use .308 with so many other options??? What is best

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3. short action- the M40 is a LONG action and much more suited to a 6.5-06

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Uh, I just got a couple USMC M40 A1 trade in stocks...they are short actions.

JB

 

[FRANK21]

Re: Why do snipers use .308 with so many other options??? What is best

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the M40 is a LONG action and much more suited to a 6.5-06 . the m-24 is a short action but their mission is not high fire rate it is one shot and go.

You got that bass ackwards. The USMC M40,M40A1,M40A3 are Short actions. The Armys M24 is a long action.

 

[blackco]

Back to the original post... personally I don't care for any of the "regular" cartridges only because I like to be different. That being said; being in the military and living in Montana I have a lot of the kids here ask what a good round is for hunting in MT an the 308 is usually one of my first recomendations.

If you already have a 7mm Mag you have probably one of the best rounds/guns to fit your criteria.

One other small point...a 200# man and a 200# animal are VERY different. Humans are whimps! I weigh 275# and if I got shot in my pinky toe I would be admited to the hospital. However, many of us have seen deer feeding with one leg flopping around or animals with bullets/broadheads in them from years past. No/few humans could handle that. I am speeking in general terms; I know of MANY stories of humans doing great/heroic things when SEVERLY injured. I have also heard the rumors that the 223 was adopted in part not to kill the enemy but to only injure, that way you use up corpmen, nurses, doctors etc. I wouldn't doubt it but I have a hard time believing it. I think its ability to be shot easier by the majority of airmen/soldiers/marines (low recoil) and the fact that you can cary LOTS more ammo for the same size/weight were more determining factors.

This is a lot longer that I intended it to be, sorry.

Superlite17, what you currently have is good, if you are looking for an excuse /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif to buy another gun, there are no perfect choices. You just have to decide what is perfect for you. I never was able to decide so I bought a bunch of guns and I'm still trying to decide which one is BEST. My wife just shakes her head.

 

[roninflag]

Re: Why do snipers use .308 with so many other options??? What is best

[ QUOTE ]
(Quote)
the M40 is a LONG action and much more suited to a 6.5-06 . the m-24 is a short action but their mission is not high fire rate it is one shot and go.

You got that bass ackwards. The USMC M40,M40A1,M40A3 are Short actions. The Armys M24 is a long action.

[/ QUOTE ]7MM: THANK YOU. (I can't type it was late) . i Knew the army was the one with the long action. I got the models mixed.thank you. ron

 

[rcnpthfndr]

Re: Why do snipers use .308 with so many other options??? What is best

the newer M24's are all short actions now, as the army's intent of using the .300wm outside of socom doesn't exist. that being said, the M24A3 is a 338 Lapua and in an AICS stock.
Most SDM's use the M-14 and whatever M-16 chassis the unit local purchase for their SDM's.

why .308 and 5.56? because changing ammo in the middle of a fight isnt the best idea /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. and these rounds have a great perfomance record for what they do.