Why 1:11 twist for 30-06?

HOLY **** BATMAN!!!

Who do you think is more prone to be lying?
The BATFE?
The Manufacturer to the BATFE?
Your blog article written by someone that gets paid per advertisement clicks?
Your statistics link?

I have SHOWN you legal proof that 1970 rifles were imported into the USA by Beretta USA Corp and that 94183 pistols were imported into the USA by Beretta USA Corp in 2015.

I cannot tell you why your chosen credit sources would lie so much but it is crystal clear they have/are because there isn't a firearms manufacturer that is going to lie to the BATFE on their annual manufacturing report and the BATFE is not going to lie in regards to numbers the manufacturers say were manufactured/imported because that report is in accordance and compliance of the Trade Secrets Act.

THEIS
I don't think anyone is lying to BATF. I am questioning that every gun imported into US becomes manufacturer ed in US on the paperwork. There nay be certain games played like that to get around some restriction, but 8 am not convinced every gun sold I'm America, that was manufactured outside the US is considered manufactured here for legal reasons.


So if I was to subtle for you last few posts, I think you are full of it.

Plus I think 1970 is low, granted anecdotal but i know a few people with ztikkas. No one with Sakos, but I see them at store.

If really was 1970, why lie and say 40k? That is a huge difference. Might want to say a few and let people think they are getting something unique. Though I don't believe that to be true.


Not sure why you find it hard to believe US is large consumer of high powered rifles. Hard to own guns in lefty countries.
 
All this cause I believe you can fine tune twists, and one twist is not ideal for 70 grain span. Not sure how some people got so upset.


Some people just don't read the posts, and interject like they did.
 
Sako and Tikka have a 1:11 twist for their 30-06s. What is the advantage, and what is their target bullet? Most are 1:10.

Are they optimizing this for something specific, or just European way of making it?

I am not shooting far, so I shoot 180 grain. I may switch someday, I realize I really don't need 180. But I have alot of 180 bullets stocked up.


One more time.

Sako and Tikka build firearms and they get to decide what twist rate they want to use. Also they are on a fools errand if they build a rifle around one bullet.

This has been tried before and the company lost because it was not the best all round twist rate for the public.

I don't think that whether the rifle is imported has anything to do with your question , so everyone would be second guessing "Why" a manufacture does anything. Typically, any decision is based on profit. and if they don't change with the times they probably will loose out.

As one of the posters stated, years ago most people did not shoot the heaviest bullets and stuck with the tried and true 150 to 168 grain bullets because of bullet quality and trajectory. the heavy bullets were just to slow and ballistics were not that important to bullet makers with the case capacity of the 30/06.

I cant speak for the Europeans and what they like to use but they typically don't shoot or have the terrain to shoot long distances like we do.

If you worry about Why any manufacture does anything, you will drive your self crazy.

Typically, bench rest shooters feel that slower twist are better because they are easier on the jackets when engraving and there for more accurate. but long range shooters are looking for the highest BCs and wind bucking ability so there needs are different than most hunters/shooters that
are limited to 6 or 700 yards.

Most cartridges start life with a standard bullet weight and some are slow to change. The 30/06 standard bullet weight is 150 and the ballistics are based on that bullet weight. the standard for the 7mm rem mag was 140 grains. And many people still shoot those bullet weights.

With a standard Ojive bullet in the 150 weight ,the 1 in 11 or a 1 in 12 twist will perform fine. but for heavier bullets, it is recommended that a faster twist should be used to stabilize the bullet for longer distances. some bullet shapes require a faster twist because of there short body length, but may not work well in all barrels with the faster twist, (The reason I don't recommend building a rifle designed to shoot a specific bullet design and weight.

In cases with the amount of case capacity that a 30/06 has there is a reason that the designer decided to use 150 grain bullets at a velocity over 3000 ft/sec compared to an average velocity of 2650 ft/sec for the 180 or 2500 ft/sec for the 200 grain bullet. so chances are that some feel that the 150 grain bullets are still the best all round choice and builds there rifles around that bullet weight thinking it will be the better seller.

Hope this helps answer your questions.

J E CUSTOM
 
***????? I have said this from the beginning. I never said 1:11 was perfect twist. I asked what bullet they were billing it for. I attached berger bullets reference for twist and grain.


Get through to me?????

I post this to you #26

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/why-1-11-twist-30-06-a-186722/index4.html#post1310781

You never did click on that site and if you had you would of seen bullets hunting/target for the 1/11 twist 30cal barrels.

One reason I post that to see if you really had any interest. I still wonder why you never found any Berger that work with 1/11 twist but found the 1/12

Had you of posted back on any of those bullets I could of given you some of my experience shooting 30-06 with Bartlein barrel @ 26" with 1/11r twist. I also have Lilja 1/11 twist barrel on one of my 30-338mag.

I then post about Sako ammo which includes 30-06 and bullets used, then you post that you reload.

I'm sure you do reload and you could be very good at that.
 
I post this to you #26

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/why-1-11-twist-30-06-a-186722/index4.html#post1310781

You never did click on that site and if you had you would of seen bullets hunting/target for the 1/11 twist 30cal barrels.

One reason I post that to see if you really had any interest. I still wonder why you never found any Berger that work with 1/11 twist but found the 1/12

Had you of posted back on any of those bullets I could of given you some of my experience shooting 30-06 with Bartlein barrel @ 26" with 1/11r twist. I also have Lilja 1/11 twist barrel on one of my 30-338mag.

I then post about Sako ammo which includes 30-06 and bullets used, then you post that you reload.

I'm sure you do reload and you could be very good at that.
Where do you come with any thing you wrote?


I only have 1:10 rifles.


I found 5he berger guide and attached it, because it answered my question of what grain twist were built for.

I have never shot ant berger or barnes. This thread is only a week old for cripes sake.

Again I only own 1:10, contrary to the BS that someone said I own a sako.
 
One more time.

Sako and Tikka build firearms and they get to decide what twist rate they want to use. Also they are on a fools errand if they build a rifle around one bullet.

This has been tried before and the company lost because it was not the best all round twist rate for the public.

I don't think that whether the rifle is imported has anything to do with your question , so everyone would be second guessing "Why" a manufacture does anything. Typically, any decision is based on profit. and if they don't change with the times they probably will loose out.

As one of the posters stated, years ago most people did not shoot the heaviest bullets and stuck with the tried and true 150 to 168 grain bullets because of bullet quality and trajectory. the heavy bullets were just to slow and ballistics were not that important to bullet makers with the case capacity of the 30/06.

I cant speak for the Europeans and what they like to use but they typically don't shoot or have the terrain to shoot long distances like we do.

If you worry about Why any manufacture does anything, you will drive your self crazy.

Typically, bench rest shooters feel that slower twist are better because they are easier on the jackets when engraving and there for more accurate. but long range shooters are looking for the highest BCs and wind bucking ability so there needs are different than most hunters/shooters that
are limited to 6 or 700 yards.

Most cartridges start life with a standard bullet weight and some are slow to change. The 30/06 standard bullet weight is 150 and the ballistics are based on that bullet weight. the standard for the 7mm rem mag was 140 grains. And many people still shoot those bullet weights.

With a standard Ojive bullet in the 150 weight ,the 1 in 11 or a 1 in 12 twist will perform fine. but for heavier bullets, it is recommended that a faster twist should be used to stabilize the bullet for longer distances. some bullet shapes require a faster twist because of there short body length, but may not work well in all barrels with the faster twist, (The reason I don't recommend building a rifle designed to shoot a specific bullet design and weight.

In cases with the amount of case capacity that a 30/06 has there is a reason that the designer decided to use 150 grain bullets at a velocity over 3000 ft/sec compared to an average velocity of 2650 ft/sec for the 180 or 2500 ft/sec for the 200 grain bullet. so chances are that some feel that the 150 grain bullets are still the best all round choice and builds there rifles around that bullet weight thinking it will be the better seller.

Hope this helps answer your questions.

J E CUSTOM
My question was answered a long time ago. Barrel nut was the first to say different twist for different grains. I than found the Berger reference guide supporting that.


I don't think they are building for one bullet. But I think they realize very few people shoot over 180, so they should build for those peopme, and possibly increase accuracy by not being a jack of all trades.


I disagree with the trend to go heavier in 30-06. I think historically we are going lighter. Early 30-06s were heavier. Maybe some 150 people have gone up to 165, some 180 down to it. That is probably the only change in a long time .

I think people have moved to speed stats and away from 220s. Which is probably why Sako builds 11 and nor 10.
 
I can't find it out for sure but read about older sako having 1:10 twist. Which would discredit the idea they are ylto cheap to switch or just stubborn Finns
 
HOLY **** BATMAN!!!

Who do you think is more prone to be lying?
The BATFE?
The Manufacturer to the BATFE?

THEIS

ATF dot GOV says we imported 40k rifles from Finnland. No legaleze.

Firearms Imported into the United States
by Country of Manufacture 2014



https://www.atf.gov/file/89561/download



Seriously...Can you not read the difference between "Manufactured" and "Exported"??
That BATFE record shows BOTH..I have even given you the page numbers that coincide to Beretta USA Corp for BOTH "Manufactured" and "Exported".



THEIS
Yes Exported means sold outside of the United States. Imported means made in another country, and sold in US





As wrote pages ago, Finnish rifle makers make their rifles for US, since we are almost 1/2 their market.
 
ATF dot GOV says we imported 40k rifles from Finnland. No legaleze.

Firearms Imported into the United States
by Country of Manufacture 2014



https://www.atf.gov/file/89561/download

You really are a special kind of SOS huh....

If you add the 94183 pistols manufactured (which had to be imported and "turned" into manufactured because they had no facility in USA at that time) in 2015 and the 1970 rifles manufactured (which had to be imported and "turned" into manufactured because they had no facility in the USA at that time) in 2015 it comes up with more than 40k...

Also note that even though you linked an BATFE spreadsheet, the "source" for your information from exhibit 5 comes from United States International Trade Commission and NOT the BATFE Annual manufacturers report. That is where your statistca.com link pulled their information from too, lolol

Notice my link here https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/undefined/afmer-2015-final/download says:
PREPARED BY FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES SERVICES DIVISION
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES
MARTINSBURG, WV

So..once again....your close but no cigar :cool:

THEIS
 
You really are a special kind of SOS huh....

If you add the 94183 pistols manufactured (which had to be imported and "turned" into manufactured because they had no facility in USA at that time) in 2015 and the 1970 rifles manufactured (which had to be imported and "turned" into manufactured because they had no facility in the USA at that time) in 2015 it comes up with more than 40k...

Also note that even though you linked an BATFE spreadsheet, the "source" for your information from exhibit 5 comes from United States International Trade Commission and NOT the BATFE Annual manufacturers report. That is where your statistca.com link pulled their information from too, lolol

Notice my link here https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/undefined/afmer-2015-final/download says:
PREPARED BY FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES SERVICES DIVISION
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES
MARTINSBURG, WV

So..once again....your close but no cigar :cool:

THEIS
You still want to claim that rifles made in another country, sold in the United States are manufactured in the United States???????????????


I provide a link that says Finnland imported 40k rifles. But you say Sako/Tikka only imported 2k? Is there some other big manufactuer in Finnland???????



I can't figure out if you just can't admit you are wrong, or you are deceitful.
 
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