What is the real advantage??

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by Precision_Game_85, Oct 4, 2010.

  1. Precision_Game_85

    Precision_Game_85 Well-Known Member

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    How much more accurate are the aftermarket actions that you can buy in relation to a trued up rem 700. I've been looking at places like surgeon actions and was wondering if they're actually worth the cash or if you can get the same performance from a blueprinted rem 700 action??
     
  2. Bravo 4

    Bravo 4 Well-Known Member

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    I do not own a custom action but have been reading as much as I can on the subject, maybe for my next build. I do however have a factory Savage that (before pushing a couple thousand rounds through) was a true 1/4moa performer. I also have a Rem 700 action that Kirby Allen had worked over and it is also a true 1/4moa rifle. Do I think a custom action would perform any better...I really don't see how it could. The reason I am looking into one is because I want more performance then my current .338 EDGE (it gets addicting and you seem to always want more!). To get such performance I need to take a step up in cartridge size and need a larger action.
    It also seems to be the consensus that a custom action holds more of its value.
     

  3. squirrelduster

    squirrelduster Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure I'll get beat up for this but unless you are shooting something like one of the Kirby Allen hot rods or you are planning on competing I don't believe the custom actions are necessary. They are smoother and better looking but if you have a well built tuned up Remington or Savage the accuracy difference shouldn't be much different.
    I have two Remington 700 actions done by Hart and both shoot 1/2" or better at 100 yards. I have a Savage tuned by Kevin at Stockade and it shoots about the same. These are all different calibers, 7WSM, 6BR, and 300 win mag.
    The big advantage with the custom actions is they don't need rework. If you have a rifle and want to add a barrel and tune up it is cheaper but if you are going with a ground up custom then stick with a custom action.
    All of mine were pretty good shooters before I had them tuned and rebarreled.
    Bottom line is if you have an action use it, if you don't buy a custom it will be cheaper in the long run.
     
  4. LongBomber

    LongBomber Well-Known Member

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    If you already have a M700 action for your build then there is no need for a custom action, unless the action is beyond what can be blue printed. If you had to go out and buy a donor rifle, then a stiller/phoenix/Defiance/Borden etc become a toss up. By the time you pay for the rifle (even with selling off the other parts to reduce cost) and pay to have the action trued you are just under the cost of a custom action. The custom action may be built out of better materials and be able to take higher pressure without having problems, like lug setback which can happen in a Rem 700 action. If you were going to build a rifle with a case that is any fatter than a wsm/rum then I would look to a custom action.

    I was at a F-class comp a few months back and several of the shooters were using trued Remington actions. It's all in what you want when looking at custom actions. It may not be a case of need.
     
  5. Rimfire

    Rimfire Well-Known Member

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    If you are shooting BR comp. it is nice to have a custom to squeeze every last bit out of it. Certain customs are stiffer depending on port configuration or single shot, not much of a big deal. The main thing that is better in customs over a printed Rem is the bolt fit. With that being said my last build was on a Rem with a PTG tight fit bolt and it is tighter than my Stiller. As said if you have a Rem use it If not Add up the cost and you might be able to get a custom for the same Price. My last Rem build is one of my most accurate rifles custom actions included.
     
  6. Precision_Game_85

    Precision_Game_85 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks everyone I reallyyyy appreciate all the help I get on this site...I've decided to stay with the rem action on the build I'm doing since I already have it...In the future if I'm shooting something bigger I might go with a custom action to get all the performance out of it that I can...
     
  7. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Defensive Edge (Shawn Carlock) builds all of his Edges on Rem 700 actions.

    As long as you are sticking with a RUM size cartridge head its not a big deal. Especially as said above, you already have a 700 action to donate to the build.

    However, the resale value of the resulting build will be much less than the same build with a custom action. I don't know why but that's the way it is.

    The custom action arrives already trued which means the cost of the Rem action, plus truing is saved.

    I have one custom on a Rem 721 action, one DIY non custom on an untrued Rem 700. Both are good solid consistent 1/2 MOA shooter. One cost about 1800 the other about 800. I couldn't sell either for squat.

    I have a super hooty build coming with a Bat action and all the pieces equal to it. It's a once in a life time build and most probably my last. It will maintain its value regardless of how long I have it, much much better than the other two. Plus it will shot as well or better.
     
  8. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    I don't think blueprinting any action to a virtual zero tolerance fit of the bolt to the receiver is all that important to accuracy. 'Smiths squaring up the bolt and receiver faces on Win. 70 actions, fitting good barrels and using conventional epoxy bedding (no pillars) have had them shost test groups smaller than current 600 and 1000 yard benchrest records. That's for records requiring at least 10 or more shots per group and are the aggregates. Single 5-shot group records are meaningless for comparing accuracy; they represent the smallest group shot; all the other are larger; much larger.
     
  9. The Surgeon

    The Surgeon Well-Known Member

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    LongBomber is right. I will add this though. The Surgeon's come with bottom metal, integrated picatinny base, and recoil lug.

    You will most likely spend about another $150 - $250 for a custom action.

    As for the difference in function/accuracy, well that all depends on the smith running the lathe.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2011
  10. pinchegil

    pinchegil Active Member

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    At the risk of being labeled the poster boy of budget builds here is how I see it:
    Custom actions are a must for any cartridge larger than RUMs. Yes you can get 338 LM built on one, but smiths kind of frown on it. Custom actions will be built to spec and will work right out of the box. They can also have nice features (eg. side mounted bolt release, one piece bolts, fluted bolts, etc. ) Without question they will be stiffer and offer more threading area to provide better barrel support. And finally you will have lots better resale. If money is not a restriction, and you worry about resale ( I personally believe in "feed em barrels"), then custom actions are really the way to go.

    If cost is your decision maker, and you don't care about resale, you can actually save lots of money by going the donor gun route. Watch the big box stores and the internet(Bass Pro, Dicks, Academy, Buds). They are always putting SPS 700s for sale for around $500.00. If you are going to go the magnum route, you need a magnum bolt face buy a 7mm Rem, easier to sell the new takeoff barrel. Look at the barrel makers that offer smithing services this is the best bang for your buck as an example hart will true your action, fit and chamber the barrel for $650.00 barrel and shipping included, if you subtract the cost of the barrel that comes to $300 total smiting costs. You can sell the barrel for about $60 dollars So now you have $1080.00 in a barreled action, trigger, and bottom metal. This is a good way for some people to get into the sport, that might not otherwise be able to.

    Now after saying all of that, my next build will be on a custom action because while they do have nice features, they make a build look really cool :).
     
  11. JP100

    JP100 Well-Known Member

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    Ile just give you my 20cents worth. I dont see the point in buying a rem700 at all. We have 2 tikka T3s and a sako A7 and these all shoot 1/2moa with factory ammo out of the box. all we have done is lighten the triggers. with handloads you can get 1/4moa pretty easily. Whats the point in buying a 700 then having to get it trued and piss about with it when there are factory rifles that will shoot just as well. for hunting is there any need to shoot better than 1/2moa? I dont think so
     
  12. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    Interesting note on round actions for the big magnum cartridges.......

    When the Rem. 7XX actions came on the market, many folks barreled them for 30 caliber magnums for long range matches. After a hundred or so rounds shooting 180 grain and much heavier bullets, they torqued loose in their epoxy bedding. The US Army active duty and reserve teams tried using a 2-inch long recoil lug instead of the original factory one. That didn't work either. Folks finally did what the benchresters did for even the small 22 and 24 caliber rounds; sleeved 'em in a flat sided and bottom aluminum bar. That finally worked.
     
  13. 6.5shaggy

    6.5shaggy Well-Known Member

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    I have had numerous $49 mausers that I spun new quality barrels on in my little shop that shot 1/2 MOA. I feel that any modern action that does not have any major defect can be a shooter. That said, I have seen 3 different rem 700s that were way out of spec. It just takes time and/or money to true them up, so it's really up to the shooter based on their preference or budget.